View Issue Details

IDProjectCategoryLast Update
0021496AI War 2[All Projects] SuggestionSep 5, 2019 3:19 pm
ReporterZoreissAssigned To 
Severityminor 
Status newResolutionopen 
Product Version0.880 Belatedly Finding Friends... And Enemies 
Fixed in Version 
Summary0021496: Snipers are dumb
DescriptionEven with the prefered target selection (awesome feature btw!) snipers can be annoying. It would be very very nice if they would NOT shoot guardposts unless directly ordered to. That would stop them from alerting all the guardposts around a planet with no micromanagement.

You could also make it so Hold Fire mode stays true for automatic behaviors but if the player orders snipers to attack something while in hold fire mode that they follow that order only and then get back to holding fire. To make it so ships holding fire could be ordered to destroy a ship and all of the same type on a planet and then go back to holding fire.
TagsNo tags attached.

Relationships

related to 0021498 resolvedBadgerBadger Alerted garrison for no reasons 

Activities

BadgerBadger

Aug 15, 2019 5:12 pm

manager   ~0052565

It's not just the guard posts though, shooting guardians far away will alert nearby guard posts too.

I suppose some work could be done to the targeting code to say "If this unit has infinite range and If the target is far away and hasn't taken damage yet, make it a lower priority than things that have taken damage already"?

Zoreiss

Aug 15, 2019 6:43 pm

reporter   ~0052567

That could work if guardians/guardposts are also of lower priority then strikecrafts. Upon unloading transports on a new planet, with nothing damaged, snipers would still have a chance of firing their first shots at far guardpost. You could add a range limit of like 10 000 for the situation where everything is undamaged if that can be a thing.

BadgerBadger

Aug 16, 2019 12:18 am

manager   ~0052569

Guardians/guard posts are higher priority because that's usually optimal for your non-sniper ships and need to stay that way.

AnnoyingOrange

Aug 16, 2019 5:30 am

reporter   ~0052570

Perhaps giving Snipers a damage penality against targets that cannot move would help, that way they would only aggro a guardpost once all mobile enemy ships are dead.

Zoreiss

Aug 16, 2019 9:36 am

reporter   ~0052571

I agree that guardians/guard posts priority for non-snipers should stay like it is. it's perfect the way it is for them. I think snipers should have different priorities (sorry I know close to nothing about programming so I don't know what can and cannot be done).

What I can say is that the way they can awaken garrisoned strikecrafts by hitting far guardposts or guardians is quite frustrating and I feel I have little control over the snipers unless I micromanage them heavily and that's just not fun. I would rather just not build them so they don't kill me on higher difficulties.

Asteroid

Sep 5, 2019 2:35 am

reporter   ~0052840

I feel like this is a serious issue with the gameplay currently! It's compounded by the fact that you can't hotkey these damn snipers to micromanage them easily, and that fleet limitations mean you can't e.g. have two Tritium Sniper Frigates groups in a single fleet - so if you picked up two, you're forced to micromanage them separately.

From what I've seen snipers currently like to spread a little fire to ALL guardposts as soon as they enter the system. While this might be theoretically optimal in the very, very long term, the net result is that they do the thing that most handicaps the player! AI-infiltrated traitors, for sure.

One solution that would honestly work very well is that no unit should target dormant guard posts or units, or unit that would wake up those if being shot at (I'm assuming patrolling guardians, which are already awake, can wake up guard posts if shot at.) You might call it "micromanagement", I call it awaiting orders from the general before randomly shooting at stuff :P . Let the player make the interesting decisions and pick his targets.

If we really, really insist on trying to automate this, I think that all ships' targeting logic should try to mimic the player's typical logic when dealing with guard posts: "I want to awaken them in batches and kill them piecemeal". So:
- Kill all awakened units before dormant ones
- When no unit is awakened, focus on the closest guardpost
- Reevaluate priorities, since you just brought a whole lot of units to life

To be honest the logic and range for waking up AI units might've to be tweaked a bit so they're not *that* easy to anger. Sing them some lullabies in binary or something (there you go... new specialized ship idea).

BadgerBadger

Sep 5, 2019 3:00 pm

manager   ~0052862

Does anyone have a save game that could be used to test a fix for this? I'm looking for something like "Load this save game; take the fleet on Murdoch to Old Murdoch and notice that the snipers quickly wake up all the guard posts"

RocketAssistedPuffin

Sep 5, 2019 3:19 pm

developer   ~0052863

Here.

SniperUnitGuardPostAnger.save (429,067 bytes)

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
Aug 10, 2019 7:42 pm Zoreiss New Issue
Aug 11, 2019 1:13 pm BadgerBadger Relationship added related to 0021498
Aug 15, 2019 5:12 pm BadgerBadger Note Added: 0052565
Aug 15, 2019 6:43 pm Zoreiss Note Added: 0052567
Aug 16, 2019 12:18 am BadgerBadger Note Added: 0052569
Aug 16, 2019 5:30 am AnnoyingOrange Note Added: 0052570
Aug 16, 2019 9:36 am Zoreiss Note Added: 0052571
Sep 5, 2019 2:35 am Asteroid Note Added: 0052840
Sep 5, 2019 3:00 pm BadgerBadger Note Added: 0052862
Sep 5, 2019 3:19 pm RocketAssistedPuffin File Added: SniperUnitGuardPostAnger.save
Sep 5, 2019 3:19 pm RocketAssistedPuffin Note Added: 0052863