View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0026483 | AI War 2 | Suggestion | Feb 22, 2022 10:25 am | Feb 22, 2022 11:40 am | |
| Reporter | Bob Kovak | Assigned To | Chris_McElligottPark | ||
| Severity | feature | ||||
| Status | closed | Resolution | won't fix | ||
| Summary | 0026483: Player home command center invulnerable while certain outposts are alive | ||||
| Description | After about 100 hours of gametime and enjoying most of my time playing, there is one glaring feature missing compared to the AI that I am surprised it is not a part of the game. If the below is a mod, or some sort of option I can turn on, please let me know. While the AI can spawn 10k ships and make a beeline straight to your home command center and snipe it in one second through any forcefields/paralysis/snaring/tractors (losing the game without you even realizing you were in trouble), you as a player can not do this to the AI. It is the most frustrating part of the game, and I feel can be remedied in a few ways. 1. New build category "Outposts" for planets with a command center (including home planet) - Add "Home Protector" (limit 1) - Add "Defender" (limit 3) 2. If a planet, including your home planet, has a "Home Protector" outpost built, the home planet command center is invulnerable until all of these structures are destroyed 3. If a planet, including your home planet, has a "Defender" outpost built, the outpost automatically spawns small ships (insert ship type here) to defend the gravity well of the planet - perhaps different defender outposts spawn different small ships This concept is similar to the Dire guard posts protecting the AI core, and I feel would change the flow of the game immensely and improve popularity because the "You Lost" screen wouldn't just pop up randomly while playing the game from some invasion from somewhere because of some reason. This is the single largest flaw in the game. I understand this alters the difficulty of the base game, is likely against the "do everything minimally to not piss off the AI too much to win" concept, and likely completely changes every strategy, but I feel something similar to this preventing your homeworld from being sniped would significantly improve the adoption rate of this game. Alternatively to the above, have a few random "home protector" capturable outposts sprinkled in the galaxy, captured like the metal or energy producer, so there is at least a way to have some homeworld invulnerability. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
| related to | 0026487 | closed | Chris_McElligottPark | Teaching players defense in depth, calculating amount of existing protection, etc. |
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If you want this sort of feature you should check out the Necromancer Empire in DLC3 when it is released; it's reasonably similar. |
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I have tested the concept of a military outpost 4 jumps away from the homeworld, but instead of focusing on my outpost, the AI will still simply go straight to the homeworld. Yes, I get this is by design, but I just wanted to make sure readers know that having military command centers out in the wild to take the pressure off of the home world does not prevent sniping of your home world. The AI will attack the military outpost for sure, but while you are defending that outpost, it will also send a pac-man force to your home planet and eat it. |
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Sigh, I had a longer response written, but mantis ate it. General notes: - Being sniped is a core part of the game series for the last 13 years, going back to Raid Starships in AIWC and then the Avengers in that game, too. This game is a little more tame about it, and gives you more warnings, than the first one does. However, it's still something of an element. - Learning defense in depth is a big part of the strategy of the game. - If you have an incoming horde that large, then it sounds like they were provoked in some fashion. Before provoking them, you really should have deeper defenses in general. - In DLC1, you can play with the Splintering Spire and can get warheads and interplanetary weapons (which do major things to stall forces like this, ranging from nuking them to blocking all warp gates on some planets for a few minutes). You have to help out either the Gray Spire or Chromatic Spire and then hack them to get one side or the other of weapons, but they're meant for this sort of thing. On Challenger and up, most of those tools are considered cheats, though, because in advanced play it's something that takes out the defense in depth requirements and thus simplifies that game a lot. - Also in DLC1, there's the option for the Spire Infused Empire, which gives you way more power but does not require alternative win conditions or relic chases. - If someone were to implement the outposts idea as a mod, no factions would know how to deal with it, so you'd be effectively invincible, just FYI. |
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"I have tested the concept of a military outpost 4 jumps away from the homeworld, but instead of focusing on my outpost, the AI will still simply go straight to the homeworld." An outpost like that is useful for you launching offensives, but the AI cannot be baited away from your homeworld. You need multiple stacked planets that the AI has to go through in order to reach your homeworld. Find the spots on the map that allow for this, and build forcefields over wormholes leading deeper into your territory. That won't block every unit (by design), but cuts them down dramatically. You don't have to take every planet inside "your" territory, you can leave some of them as AI planets but with guard posts scraped off, but you do need only one ingress point. If the AI is able to walk into your home planet directly from its own larger territory, you are always at risk of very fast death. On lower difficulties on Humanity Ascendant campaign type, it might be survivable, but it will still be very hard. It's basically like living in a very bad neighborhood and having not only your doors unlocked, but open, with your valuables sitting just inside the open door. Having a secondary planet the AI must traverse fairly soon in to get to your homeworld is kind of the minimum basic defense, like building walls in many terrestrial RTS games. If you are getting into dangerous high-AIP situations in the late game, then having two planets the AI must traverse to get to your homeworld is even more ideal. How you design your turret and forcefield setups also plays a large role in the survivability of each gateway planet. "Yes, I get this is by design, but I just wanted to make sure readers know that having military command centers out in the wild to take the pressure off of the home world does not prevent sniping of your home world. The AI will attack the military outpost for sure, but while you are defending that outpost, it will also send a pac-man force to your home planet and eat it." Generally I think of things as surface area. How many of your planets are directly touching enemy planets from which forces can freely move? (Aka, not captive AI planets that have had their teeth pulled). The larger that number, the weaker your defenses will be in general, because you will be pulled out of position constantly and also have to split your resources. Generally an outpost out by itself is something I consider to be a weakening of my defenses, but that may be acceptable as a way to strengthen my offense for a while. |
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Oh -- there is a king shield (the Bastion) in Spire Infused Empires. You can't get those until so late that you've probably won already, because it takes a lot to build a city up that far. But that feature does exist there (just on the same planet, so the faction AIs can handle it). |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Feb 22, 2022 10:25 am | Bob Kovak | New Issue | |
| Feb 22, 2022 10:42 am | BadgerBadger | Note Added: 0064688 | |
| Feb 22, 2022 10:47 am | Bob Kovak | Note Added: 0064689 | |
| Feb 22, 2022 10:55 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Assigned To | => Chris_McElligottPark |
| Feb 22, 2022 10:55 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Status | new => closed |
| Feb 22, 2022 10:55 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Resolution | open => won't fix |
| Feb 22, 2022 10:55 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0064691 | |
| Feb 22, 2022 11:03 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0064694 | |
| Feb 22, 2022 11:10 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0064695 | |
| Feb 22, 2022 11:40 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Relationship added | related to 0026487 |
