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IDProjectCategoryLast Update
0024335AI War 2[All Projects] Balance IssueJan 20, 2021 7:09 pm
ReporterChthonAssigned To 
Status newResolutionopen 
Product VersionBeta 2.716 The Great Balance Curve 
Fixed in Version 
Summary0024335: After removing frigates from the AI, they need more guardians
DescriptionThe AI doesn't use enough guardians to account for it's loss of frigates now that it can't use them. This means that now with the new meatier frigates, the player can just steamroll the meager guardians and dire guardians that appear and then mop up the fleet ships with ease.

I would suggest making the AI more likely to build frigates of the appropriate mark, and possibly make it more likely to have multiple dire guardians in systems that used to have one.

Here is a save you can play with a fleet with 6 brawler frigates and 12 assault frigates. You will quickly find them to roll even Mk V worlds with ease, while the fleet ships die easily. There's nothing there on their level to compete with them.
TagsNo tags attached.



Jan 16, 2021 5:16 am


Test save (377,635 bytes)
Test save built.savemet (77 bytes)


Jan 16, 2021 7:11 am

developer   ~0060316

Its a combination of factors really. Since the frigates come in at full cap from the moment you get them they spike far harder on the initial couple upgrades than strikecraft have any hope of matching. At current a mark three frigate is essentially worth an old mark seven in hull points and about two thirds of the same previous mark seven in damage. Frigates should probably be a bit front loaded in health, but the sweet spot for maximum return on upgrades for damage on frigates should probably be mark five. (I was legit rolling mark V and VI worlds with a force of thirty mark three frigates in a matter of a couple minutes per world.)

Beyond that yes the AI worlds definitely need more guardians as coverage because even the spicier Dire variants that weigh in at just under forty strength are merely a speed bump when the player can exceed a hundred and fifty strength in under 20 minutes of play with a semi-decent start with the current balance. Honestly I'd probably shift where Dire Guardians can show up to Mark III worlds and up. And then make it so a Mark V world gets two by default and any Mark VII world gets a default of three Dire Guardians. Beyond that basically every AI world outside the initial start cluster should also probably have two or three standard guardians per mark level or an equivalent value of turrets.


Jan 16, 2021 12:48 pm

reporter   ~0060319

I think the regular guardians could use a hull boost. They are considerably more fragile than frigates.


Jan 18, 2021 6:40 pm

reporter   ~0060350

Another thing, it would be nice for guardians (not dire guardians) to *hide* inside of guard posts. Nothing like a nice surprise for an unsuspecting human empire to encounter when a bunch of paralyzer and tractor guardians pop up to ambush a fleet.


Jan 19, 2021 1:58 am

developer   ~0060351

Unfortunately all the hiding in the guard posts does is make them activate piecemeal rather than actually "hide" them. Since hovering over an AI outpost with a garrison inside and going for a higher than minimum level context details says what is inside said outpost.


Jan 20, 2021 7:09 pm

reporter   ~0060365

I thought of that idea considering that the AI used to have frigates *hiding* inside of guard posts; namely warbird, brawler, and mugger frigates. Of course I could simply hover over the guard post to find guardians. I can only imagine seeing so many guardians circling around the planets if some of them did not *hide* inside guard posts if they keep their current hull points.

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
Jan 16, 2021 5:16 am Chthon New Issue
Jan 16, 2021 5:16 am Chthon File Added: Test save
Jan 16, 2021 5:16 am Chthon File Added: Test save built.savemet
Jan 16, 2021 7:11 am CRCGamer Note Added: 0060316
Jan 16, 2021 12:48 pm Crabby Note Added: 0060319
Jan 18, 2021 6:40 pm Crabby Note Added: 0060350
Jan 19, 2021 1:58 am CRCGamer Note Added: 0060351
Jan 20, 2021 7:09 pm Crabby Note Added: 0060365