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IDProjectCategoryLast Update
0024045AI War 2Bug - GameplayDec 23, 2020 1:21 pm
ReporterStrategic Sage Assigned ToChris_McElligottPark  
Severitymajor 
Status resolvedResolutionfixed 
Product VersionBeta 2.622 Hangar Ship Diversity 
Fixed in Version2.709 Obedient Engineers 
Summary0024045: Insubordinate Engineers
DescriptionHere's a good repeatable version of one of the scenarios where this comes up. There are two support fleets in the Rijsbergen system near the wormhole to Boehm. They have a bunch of engineers around them. The engineers refuse to assist the support factories in building ships, even if repeatedly and specifically ordered to via right-clicking.
TagsNo tags attached.

Activities

Strategic Sage

Oct 29, 2020 3:24 pm

reporter  

EngineersIssue.save (541,270 bytes)

Chris_McElligottPark

Nov 21, 2020 2:15 pm

administrator   ~0059720

Thanks for the reminder on it. Not sure what is up with it right now.

Strategic Sage

Nov 21, 2020 2:16 pm

reporter   ~0059721

After discussion on Discord (thanks ArnaudB and Metrekec in particular) it appears the problem here is related to Pursuit/Auto-Work being toggled off. I don't always want that on for reasons of managing how much metal is being spent at once. This explains why this isn't an issue for most players, because automated engineers is certainly the more popular approach.

Chris_McElligottPark

Nov 21, 2020 4:07 pm

administrator   ~0059729

To make sure I understand: if you have pursuit mode off, then engineers won't do work if you give them direct orders?

Engineers have been something that a variety of us programmers have touched over time, and I always leave mine in pursuit mode myself, so I have not paid them much mind. I expect the following behaviors, but it sounds like several of these diverge from what you say:

1. If an engineer is not in pursuit mode, that it helps whatever is within reach of it, costing you metal.
2. If an engineer is paused, then it does nothing, not costing you metal.
3. If an engineer is given an order while paused, it still does nothing, which would seem insubordinate.
4. If an engineer is in pursuit mode, it does whatever it wants in the absence of your own orders.
5. If an engineer is in pursuit mode, but you gave it an order, it does what you said instead of what it wants. When its orders are done, it goes back to doing what it wants.

Sounds like this is not how it works, though?

BadgerBadger

Nov 21, 2020 4:15 pm

manager   ~0059730

I've never had problems giving orders to engineers.

Chris_McElligottPark

Nov 21, 2020 6:08 pm

administrator   ~0059732

I have not, either. But I do also have them in the mode where they are in pursuit mode.

Strategic Sage

Nov 21, 2020 6:41 pm

reporter   ~0059737

Last edited: Nov 21, 2020 8:15 pm

Thanks for the clarification Chris.

2 and 3 - I assume by paused you mean on 'Hold Fire'? If so, that's what I would expect as well.

4 works as described and I have no issue there.

5 does not happen in the uploaded save. If it is on pursuit and I give it an order, most of them go do what they want and ignore what I said.
1 happens occasionally but not most of the time. I.e. when I load up the save I have a bunch of engineers in range of the support factories, two are assisting briefly but they soon stop. The others do nothing.

But there is also:

6. An Engineer is not in pursuit mode, and is given specific orders to assist a structure. It chooses to do nothing instead.

These should be very easily verifiable with the save, I get the same result every time I load it regardless of program or system reboot.

Strategic Sage

Nov 21, 2020 6:42 pm

reporter   ~0059738

Guh, sorry about the all the extra links, didn't mean to format it that way.

Chris_McElligottPark

Nov 21, 2020 8:16 pm

administrator   ~0059744

No worries, I just edited it to remove the # signs. It catches everyone. And yep, 2 and 3 I meant hold fire.

On those other cases, that does sound maddening. I'll take a look on that soon. Thanks for the added clarification of when it doesn't work!

DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY

Nov 24, 2020 3:13 pm

reporter   ~0059777

Additional notes for engineers: it seems like engineers not in FRD mode seem to not be "optimal" in terms of when they assist construction of units whenever both a mobile factory and regular stationary factory are on the same planet. This is very easy to see during the start of the game.

furthermore: engineers seem to stop "prioirty build" turrets at 90% construction. When you select combat engineers and tell them to build battlestation turrets with right click, they seem to stop building at 90%, and switch to a different target and refuse to build. Check the save below to give it a field test.

Chris_McElligottPark

Dec 23, 2020 1:21 pm

administrator   ~0060148

Major difference! Thanks!

* When engineers are given wormhole orders, they are now actually obedient.

* When engineers are explicitly told to assist a factory, they will now do so regardless of the factory type.
** Previously there was a bug that only made them work with stationary factories that way, not mobile support ones.

* When engineers are not in Pursuit mode, they will now gang-up assist a factory within their assist range, if available.
** It doesn't matter if they spread out their assistance or not, since 10 engineers assisting 1 factory while a second factory just does normal speed is equal to 5 engineers each helping those two factories.
** Previously, engineers had to be in pursuit mode to automatically choose to help a factory.

* Fixed several bugs with engineers helping with the construction of things in general, which led them to stop building things before they were actually finished, etc.

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
Oct 29, 2020 3:24 pm Strategic Sage New Issue
Oct 29, 2020 3:24 pm Strategic Sage File Added: EngineersIssue.save
Oct 29, 2020 3:24 pm Strategic Sage File Added: EngineersIssue.savemet
Oct 29, 2020 3:55 pm Chris_McElligottPark Assigned To => Chris_McElligottPark
Oct 29, 2020 3:55 pm Chris_McElligottPark Status new => assigned
Nov 21, 2020 2:15 pm Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0059720
Nov 21, 2020 2:16 pm Strategic Sage Note Added: 0059721
Nov 21, 2020 4:07 pm Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0059729
Nov 21, 2020 4:15 pm BadgerBadger Note Added: 0059730
Nov 21, 2020 6:08 pm Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0059732
Nov 21, 2020 6:41 pm Strategic Sage Note Added: 0059737
Nov 21, 2020 6:42 pm Strategic Sage Note Added: 0059738
Nov 21, 2020 8:15 pm Chris_McElligottPark Note Edited: 0059737
Nov 21, 2020 8:16 pm Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0059744
Nov 24, 2020 3:13 pm DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY File Added: engineers stop building.save
Nov 24, 2020 3:13 pm DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY Note Added: 0059777
Dec 23, 2020 1:21 pm Chris_McElligottPark Status assigned => resolved
Dec 23, 2020 1:21 pm Chris_McElligottPark Resolution open => fixed
Dec 23, 2020 1:21 pm Chris_McElligottPark Fixed in Version => 2.709 Obedient Engineers
Dec 23, 2020 1:21 pm Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0060148