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IDProjectCategoryLast Update
0023034AI War 2[All Projects] Balance IssueMar 30, 2020 10:29 am
ReporterStrategic SageAssigned To 
Status newResolutionopen 
Product Version2.009 Plenty Of Tuning 
Fixed in Version 
Summary0023034: Too Much Hacking
DescriptionHacking is simply too plentiful in my opinion. Super-low AIP is the only time when you even have to make meaningful choices. For any other playstyle, you have more than you know what to do with. I think going back to 20 hacking per system would be a good idea - not because it's the Classic amount, but because it's roughly where I think an appropriate balance would be. You'd still be swimming in it if you play high-AIP, but lower amounts of systems would at least require more choices.
TagsNo tags attached.



Mar 15, 2020 10:24 am

reporter   ~0056557

That depends. If you have a lot you can hack GCA and others stuff without taking them.

I play some large-scale games and I can tell you my hacking points go down the drain fast. On higher difficulties you notably have a lot more opportunity to use sabotage hacking, which is both a lot more necessary and more plentiful at diff 7-9 with multiple AIs.

Maybe offer some saves where you have that situation?

Strategic Sage

Mar 15, 2020 3:31 pm

reporter   ~0056559

I could put saves up but honestly I don't think it's necessary in this case, it's a ubiquitous issue. Unless you're trying to cleanse large sections of the galaxy of Dark Spire or something it's basically everywhere. I interact on the discord quite a bit and I literally can't remember an example of a screenshot a few hours in where the player didn't have spare hacking in the hundreds. I have that happen in literally every game I play.


Mar 15, 2020 5:52 pm

reporter   ~0056561

High hack points is the reward of playing high aip playstyle. you can burn hack points on watching planets if you really want to waste hap, or use it to weaken gps and turrets


Mar 16, 2020 6:10 am

reporter   ~0056572

I never play high AIP and I think it finds quite a nice balance.

Strategic Sage

Mar 16, 2020 4:45 pm

reporter   ~0056573

I suppose part of this issue is what the balance should be. Perhaps people have a different perspective on that. I think there's no point to a resource if you don't have to make regular, meaningful choices in how to use it. When you can get most of the tech vaults/ARS/outguard, end with say 200 or so AIP, get a few capacity extenders and still have plenty of hacking left over after doing a couple of science extractions as well I think that's a problem.


Mar 17, 2020 4:36 am

reporter   ~0056577

I dunno, I always run out of hacking points unless there are a lot of astro trains running around (and even then). I do play with more stuff than normal (using the lobby modifiers) and with multiple AIs (so multiple Spire Archives). Hacking points don't increase no matter how much stuff you can potentially take so it's normal for me to run out.

Always rerolls for Vaults and ARS. It can get costly.

Strategic Sage

Mar 17, 2020 4:56 am

reporter   ~0056578

I totally understand that there are possible settings on which you could run out, but I don't think that's a good way to balance the game. I think it should be balanced around the default settings. It'd be fine for example if the amount of hacking available scaled with the amount of stuff there is to hack or if there were a configurable option for it (one of the few things I support adding a new option to the lobby for).

Strategic Sage

Mar 17, 2020 4:57 am

reporter   ~0056579

I.e., on the rerolls thing … I think if somebody is regularly doing rerolls then that should mean on default settings they can't do other things.


Mar 19, 2020 9:58 pm

developer   ~0056591

So this kind of thing...I'm reluctant to touch.

Unlike Classic, there are a lot more things you can only get through hacking, so a nerf to how much you get can...possibly be a net overall nerf to the player.

I think if I was to change anything in this area, it might be specific hack costs.


Mar 29, 2020 12:50 pm

reporter   ~0056631

I also find I have too many hacking points by the end of the game. Specifically, the hacks become too hard for me to actually do any more, so the points go largely unspent.

I think a slight tweak to the curve might be good here. Maybe offer some more things that don't increase AI response to spend it on (and make it very clear in tooltips that they don't increase response).


Mar 30, 2020 10:29 am

reporter   ~0056635

Having multiple AIs solve the growing response, since they each have a hacking pool point.

On that note, the generation of ARS might need some tweaking. It looks like most of them belong to the same AIs, even in a 10 AIs game.

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
Mar 15, 2020 4:30 am Strategic Sage New Issue
Mar 15, 2020 10:24 am ArnaudB Note Added: 0056557
Mar 15, 2020 3:31 pm Strategic Sage Note Added: 0056559
Mar 15, 2020 5:52 pm DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY Note Added: 0056561
Mar 16, 2020 6:10 am Ecthelon Note Added: 0056572
Mar 16, 2020 4:45 pm Strategic Sage Note Added: 0056573
Mar 17, 2020 4:36 am ArnaudB Note Added: 0056577
Mar 17, 2020 4:56 am Strategic Sage Note Added: 0056578
Mar 17, 2020 4:57 am Strategic Sage Note Added: 0056579
Mar 19, 2020 9:58 pm RocketAssistedPuffin Note Added: 0056591
Mar 29, 2020 12:50 pm Sharkspeare Note Added: 0056631
Mar 30, 2020 10:29 am ArnaudB Note Added: 0056635