View Issue Details
|ID||Project||Category||Date Submitted||Last Update|
|0022872||AI War 2||[All Projects] Bug - Gameplay||Feb 28, 2020 7:08 pm||Jan 23, 2021 12:13 pm|
|Reporter||Lord Of Nothing||Assigned To||BadgerBadger|
|Product Version||2.004 Hotfix|
|Fixed in Version|
|Summary||0022872: Selectively Invulnerable Dark Spire Generator.|
|Description||I'm not sure what's going on here, but in the attached save there is a partially invulnerable Dark Spire Vengeance Generator on Herado. I've just done the hack, the hack finished, the hack options have disappeared, and something has damaged it a little, but now the generator seems to take no further damage from being attacked by the spirefleet and remains fully functional. (If you want to test that in a hurry, just venture one jump north...) However attacking it with normal ships (There are a few support fleets also on the planet) appears to work normally.|
Unfortunately the situation did not reproduce from a previous save.
Update: I believe have found the source of the inconsistency. It's related to gamespeed. When running the game at normal or close to normal speed, the generator is invulnerable to spire weaponry. If you ramp the gamespeed up past 300% or so, (For my computer, at least) it is vulnerable to spire weaponry. This will reproduce from either of the existing saves. This can be easily seen by starting the attack at 100% speed and then ramping the speed up.
|Tags||No tags attached.|
Feb 28, 2020 7:08 pm
Vengence Generator Invulnerable.savemet (98 bytes)
Vengence Generator Invulnerable.save (1,857,172 bytes)
So on loading your save, I do note that regular ships can damage the VG, but that spire ships cannot.
I'm actually leaning toward saying "Unexpected feature" rather than bug. It seems pretty reasonable to me that the Dark Spire VGs might be able to ignore damage from Spire ships. Seems thematically okay.
Does anyone feel strongly opposed to this?
||If noone objects, then some text explaining this could be added to the VG.|
||I like it personally, so long as the VGs remain something you can take on with normal ships.|
||The reason I reported it is that normally, spirefleet ships can damage them in the same way as anything else. I don't think I'd object to it being normal ships only as such, but right now this is not normal behaviour and is... odd.|
Additional note: I did test this a few more times from the attached save, and it did-reappear 3 times out of somewhere between a dozen and twenty attempts with varying parameters, but I still could not find a consistent cause. My guess was it had something to do with planet ownership changes, and that's what I was playing around with, but no joy on it being consistent.
Gen Hack Presave.savemet (99 bytes)
Gen Hack Presave.save (1,568,199 bytes)
(Oh, and while we're on the subject of weird, when it re-occurred in my test cases, the regular fleet wouldn't fire at the generator even when ordered to until the spire ships had stopped attacking, which is not quite the case in the original savegame - in the original savegame they will fire at it very reluctantly before the spirefleet is ordered away, and when it is ordered away they open fire in full)
Probably not terribly relevant, again, I just thought it was odd.
||Updated main note with apparent cause.|
||Small extra note: Also occurs with the anti-marauder phlebotinum emitter.|
I noticed that it's only the coilbeam that the Vengeance Generator is immune to, because I had a Spire Reactor close to it and the laser attack was able to damage the generator but not the beam.
When vulnerable the Plasma Driver will also damage the generator.
Additionally, Fallen Spire ships will actually (futilely) attack an invulnerable generator when ordered to do so if they're in range whereas every other ship doesn't bother.
The reactor is invulnerable in the 'DarkSpire 2' save, and vulnerable in the other if you want to do some quick testing.
I'd say the generator needs to be more invulnerable to the Spire if that is the story we're going for.
DarkSpire 2.save (833,638 bytes)
DarkSpire 3.save (761,908 bytes)
||Yeah, there's something weird with coilbeams and game speed at the moment. I can't help but wonder if it's somehow linked to the occasional cases where they accidentally kill things that should be targeted only when ordered to such as things that increase AIP, but that's so much less consistent that it seems unlikely.|
Possibly vaguely related, going to put it here rather than making a new report for it:
The Anti-Marauder Phlebotinum emitter is also invulnerable in a very similar way to the splash attacks of Dark Spire Phantoms, when targeted directly on it, including the interference with the ability of other nearby ships to fire enough shots to kill it quickly. (Takes ages to kill if whole fleet inlcuding Phantoms are firing, dies very quickly if Phantoms are retasked.)
The only apparent difference is that the simspeed has no effect that I could determine - unlike with the coilbeams, cranking it all the way up did not suddenly allow the emitter to die. Note that Phantoms are AOE damage-with-no-limit-on-number-of-effected-targets, similar to a coilbeam's secondary.
If I get the chance to test other combinations of splash vs the beacon, and splash vs the generator, I will, but it probably won't be any time soon. :)
This line is on the base Generator entity (and every Minor Faction Beacon). It is not altered on the vulnerable entity. My guess, based on the fixed case recently of AoE hitting a forcefield and doing nothing to said forcefield (because the actual unit wasn't in range of the blast), is that when the AoE shot hits the Generator, it then detonates and tries to find targets in its radius to damage. Since the Generator is set to never be targeted, the AoE always ignores it. This part makes sense, so you could never accidentally kill such a unit just by firing at something near it.
This only partly answers the Coilbeam. Part of it is AoE, so that section would ignore the Generator with this theory. The direct damage shouldn't, but appears inconsistent.
I'd then suspect the reason that such units prevent others from firing at it is because the targeting is considering the Generator/Beacon soon-to-be-dead and thus those units won't fire overkill shots. The AoE units then fail to do anything, and so another salvo begins, and repeat.
Both Generators and Beacons have these priorities, which might be a factor as well for the AoE component:
priority_as_ai_target="IgnoreMe" priority_as_frd_target="IgnoreMe" priority_to_protect="IgnoreMe"
||I've made some minor changes. See if this is an improvement for you.|
|Feb 28, 2020 7:08 pm||Lord Of Nothing||New Issue|
|Feb 28, 2020 7:08 pm||Lord Of Nothing||File Added: Vengence Generator Invulnerable.save|
|Feb 28, 2020 7:08 pm||Lord Of Nothing||File Added: Vengence Generator Invulnerable.savemet|
|Feb 28, 2020 7:14 pm||Lord Of Nothing||Description Updated||View Revisions|
|Feb 28, 2020 7:16 pm||Lord Of Nothing||Summary||Invulnerable Dark Spire Generator. => Selectively Invulnerable Dark Spire Generator.|
|Feb 28, 2020 7:16 pm||Lord Of Nothing||Description Updated||View Revisions|
|Feb 28, 2020 7:59 pm||BadgerBadger||Note Added: 0056157|
|Feb 28, 2020 8:00 pm||BadgerBadger||Assigned To||=> BadgerBadger|
|Feb 28, 2020 8:00 pm||BadgerBadger||Status||new => requires feedback|
|Feb 28, 2020 8:00 pm||BadgerBadger||Note Added: 0056158|
|Feb 28, 2020 8:58 pm||Strategic Sage||Note Added: 0056166|
|Feb 29, 2020 4:55 am||Lord Of Nothing||Note Added: 0056169|
|Feb 29, 2020 5:29 am||Lord Of Nothing||File Added: Gen Hack Presave.save|
|Feb 29, 2020 5:29 am||Lord Of Nothing||File Added: Gen Hack Presave.savemet|
|Feb 29, 2020 5:29 am||Lord Of Nothing||Note Added: 0056174|
|Feb 29, 2020 5:33 am||Lord Of Nothing||Note Added: 0056175|
|Feb 29, 2020 5:50 am||Lord Of Nothing||Description Updated||View Revisions|
|Feb 29, 2020 5:50 am||Lord Of Nothing||Note Added: 0056176|
|Feb 29, 2020 5:51 am||Lord Of Nothing||Description Updated||View Revisions|
|Feb 29, 2020 5:52 am||Lord Of Nothing||Description Updated||View Revisions|
|Mar 8, 2020 1:47 pm||Lord Of Nothing||Note Added: 0056396|
|Jul 9, 2020 1:56 pm||GreatYng||File Added: DarkSpire 2.save|
|Jul 9, 2020 1:56 pm||GreatYng||File Added: DarkSpire 3.save|
|Jul 9, 2020 1:56 pm||GreatYng||Note Added: 0057536|
|Jul 9, 2020 4:17 pm||Lord Of Nothing||Note Added: 0057537|
|Aug 17, 2020 5:16 pm||Lord Of Nothing||Note Added: 0058113|
|Aug 17, 2020 5:57 pm||RocketAssistedPuffin||Note Added: 0058114|
|Aug 18, 2020 12:04 am||BadgerBadger||Status||requires feedback => feedback|
|Aug 18, 2020 12:04 am||BadgerBadger||Note Added: 0058117|
|Jan 23, 2021 12:13 pm||RocketAssistedPuffin||Relationship added||has duplicate 0024356|