View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0022562 | AI War 2 | Gameplay Issue | Jan 8, 2020 4:28 pm | Jan 9, 2020 10:31 am | |
| Reporter | ArnaudB | Assigned To | RocketAssistedPuffin | ||
| Status | resolved | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Product Version | BETA 1.104 The Speed We Need | ||||
| Fixed in Version | 1.3 The Grand New AI | ||||
| Summary | 0022562: Ridiculous Reinforcement - Diff 9 Swarmer | ||||
| Description | Last game I have been playing and wow, does the reinforcement seems out of whack even for a diff 9 AI. Even worlds with only the command station left reach 100+ Strength with over a thousand unit, at AIP between 100 and 160. Hundreds of strength in multiple worlds that have never been visited. One in particular like in the screenshot has 1,5K strength which... sounds excessive. Lost the game due to a 94 Str rush past my numerous defenses to my homeworld. Not for lack of trying. Got only one wave a 363 with usurper once. Rest hasn't gone beyond 60 strength in general, so I am guessing there is an issue with reinforcements. None of those reinforcement seems to include the Warden fleets either or the hunter fleet, or at least I haven't noticed ships from those two fleets amid the drones and guard posts reinforcements. Might be a Swarmer AI issue? | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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* Troop Accelerator effect 2x -> 1.5x. * Reduced AIs initial strikecraft a bit. Noticed an Accelerator in one of the images. See how that goes in future. I suspect part of this is the Warden donating excess to Reinforcements if it's at capacity. Used to be waves but caused a lot of "Why are the waves suddenly enormous?". |
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The galaxy map looks about right to me honestly. The 1.5k strength planet is aquite high, but it looks like most of it might be the 101 great turrets, which the player should be able to handle fine you pick them off separately or use long range units (AI turrets have very short range). Had every planet gotten to that kind of level, or just that one? 150 strength on a neutered planet is high. Depends on how long its been alerted since you cleared it and whether the warden fleet being culled regularly? Devs - is it appropriate/helpful to give a comment of this kind in the mantis context? I don't want to get the ettiquate wrong. |
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More information. This seems to be a bug with the Warden fleet. Specifically, the Hunter fleet is active but not the warden fleet. A proof show up in the Warden base, that have only 110 ships for 4str which is very, very abnormal given the difficulty and how many ships are otherwise around. A second point of interest is the AI homeworld, it has Praetorian Guard but no warden at all. A third point is that nowhere the Warden fleet show up. There are the normal ships and the Hunter fleet can be found, but nowhere in enemy territory the warden fleet seems to be responding. Even in AI's held worlds only the normal ships and Hunter Fleet will are responding. |
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Note, need a new screenshot key because you can't show verbose tooltip while pressing F12. |
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There indeed appears to be little on the map, however debug logging indicates there's at least 130 S of Warden somewhere. There are pockets of it isolated by your worlds. Debug Killing them has them spawn on the AI Homeworld Warden Base, with nothing strange there. There is indeed a lot of budget being put into Reinforcements in this. The Warden is also being given some. The amount seems low, but it's there. EDIT: After destroying every Warden Base like before except the last one, it's now responding, if a bit weak. EDIT 2: It seems to be functional now, it's merely being drained by supporting other AI forces and losing units, so it isn't building up to a large mass. If the Warden was generally missing and not being drained, plus the Wormhole Invasions not being unlocked, that'd explain the crazy Reinforcement - if either of those can't spend their budget (due to being at capacity or not unlocked) it donates to Reinforcements. Combine that with the map type making the AI dump Reinforcements on few planets, and ow. Still seems oddly high in places though, stuck in Command Stations, and the Warden capacity still seems off here, what's being lost in combat doesn't appear to be enough to stall it growing. EDIT 3: "checking for orphan ships on Spewak (mobile strength 109562)" AI Homeworld. Not that much in the Warden Base, so curious. Feels as if it's seeing something else as Warden...but which isn't. EDIT 4: Debug Kill All on the AI Homeworld causes the Warden strength to spike up, assuming because of the units inside the Base. |
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Okay this seems to be the problem: Some new Warden units are being dumped into the Bases. When in there, they can't respond to you at all. They are reported correctly in the tracing logs, but not in the threat bar at the top (if clicked on). Some of the new units are the correct Mark and will fly off to defend things. Some are the Mark of the planet and stay in the Base (meaning AI Homeworld has MK7 Warden). The strength of the units in the Base appears to be misreported. I have a base here containing 25 Strength, the total visible Warden in the galaxy is 12. If I Debug Kill All this Base, visible Warden goes up to 90. Result is most of the Warden is MIA. Last note: These things are Reinforcement Points now. May be a strange interaction there, because the units inside are all Warden. Will test removing that. |
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Changing it to no longer be a Reinforcement Point stops the unit count inside from growing apparently, and causes it to be correctly reported in the threat drop down info. |
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* Warden Fleet Bases are no longer considered reinforcement points, as this caused some weirdness with them, and could result in it being MIA over time as units were stuck inside. With that no longer causing the Warden to be feeding reinforcements en masse all the time, and the previous changes (plus some lower initial defenses, not by too much), this should hopefully be more or less resolved. Your game right now unfortunately will still have a mostly missing Warden, because the units will still be inside Bases, unless you drive AIP up and start clearing them out. |
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I started a new game and warden fleet showed up as normal, with Sledgehammer rather than Swarmer. I am guessing the problem is indeed Swarmer related. |
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Swarmer doesn't change anything for the Warden though. All it does is swap out the Guard Posts and the Carrier Guardian. I could see this problem in new games too. It probably builds up over time until most of the Warden is stuck in Bases. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Jan 8, 2020 4:28 pm | ArnaudB | New Issue | |
| Jan 8, 2020 4:28 pm | ArnaudB | File Added: ABitTooMuch.jpg | |
| Jan 8, 2020 4:28 pm | ArnaudB | File Added: GalaxyState.jpg | |
| Jan 8, 2020 4:28 pm | ArnaudB | File Added: Seems excessive.jpg | |
| Jan 8, 2020 4:28 pm | ArnaudB | File Added: RidiculousReinforcement.rar | |
| Jan 8, 2020 5:02 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Added: 0055438 | |
| Jan 8, 2020 5:23 pm | Astilious | Note Added: 0055441 | |
| Jan 9, 2020 4:40 am | ArnaudB | File Added: NoReinforcementWardenBase.jpg | |
| Jan 9, 2020 4:40 am | ArnaudB | File Added: NoWardenAIHomeworld_GalaxyMap1h.jpg | |
| Jan 9, 2020 4:40 am | ArnaudB | File Added: ArcenDebugLog.txt | |
| Jan 9, 2020 4:40 am | ArnaudB | Note Added: 0055456 | |
| Jan 9, 2020 4:42 am | ArnaudB | Note Added: 0055457 | |
| Jan 9, 2020 7:52 am | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Added: 0055458 | |
| Jan 9, 2020 7:55 am | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Edited: 0055458 | |
| Jan 9, 2020 8:01 am | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Edited: 0055458 | |
| Jan 9, 2020 8:08 am | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Edited: 0055458 | |
| Jan 9, 2020 8:14 am | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Edited: 0055458 | |
| Jan 9, 2020 8:16 am | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Edited: 0055458 | |
| Jan 9, 2020 8:18 am | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Edited: 0055458 | |
| Jan 9, 2020 8:32 am | RocketAssistedPuffin | File Added: OneWardenLeft.save | |
| Jan 9, 2020 8:32 am | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Added: 0055459 | |
| Jan 9, 2020 8:41 am | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Added: 0055460 | |
| Jan 9, 2020 8:56 am | RocketAssistedPuffin | Assigned To | => RocketAssistedPuffin |
| Jan 9, 2020 8:56 am | RocketAssistedPuffin | Status | new => resolved |
| Jan 9, 2020 8:56 am | RocketAssistedPuffin | Resolution | open => fixed |
| Jan 9, 2020 8:56 am | RocketAssistedPuffin | Fixed in Version | => 1.3 The Grand New AI |
| Jan 9, 2020 8:56 am | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Added: 0055461 | |
| Jan 9, 2020 10:08 am | ArnaudB | Note Added: 0055462 | |
| Jan 9, 2020 10:31 am | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Added: 0055464 |
