View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0021668 | AI War 2 | Balance Issue | Sep 20, 2019 9:07 pm | Sep 23, 2019 5:09 pm | |
| Reporter | NRSirLimbo | Assigned To | BadgerBadger | ||
| Status | resolved | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Product Version | 0.890 Lighting and Darkness | ||||
| Fixed in Version | 0.891 Vast Tracts of... Ship Graphics | ||||
| Summary | 0021668: Dark Spire Vengeance Generators need balance | ||||
| Description | If I sound a little angry right about now then that's the result of losing lots of games to not the AI but the Dark Spire. I really enjoy the concept of having an enemy structure you can't attack yet, you have to isolate and gather up strength to fight and I love playing with them so much, but the balancing is horrible so I also hate playing with them at the same time. It's horrible because to this date I haven't lost a single game due to the AI (admittedly, I play on low difficulty 5, but then again Dark Spire only gets a maximum 5 faction influence too), only ever to the Dark Spire assuming I put them into the galaxy. Their main issue is the insane conversion ratio growth. I've seen it go above and beyond 1400%. At this point every Mk3 Macrophage with 49 strength will produce a wave worth 686 strength. Even player zombies produce waves. And one of the main reasons why this conversion ratio goes so high is because the AI doesn't seem to recognize them as enemies, or doesn't factor in their strength when thinking "oh, this planet has a lot of strength on it. Better gather up forces". The AI seems to have a tunnel vision when it comes to this, only seeing player strength. As a result of guardian trickle and reconquest waves I've had the Dark Spire gather literally thousands of strength points. Every ~4k it would then set out to my homeworld. Game Over. Getting rid of them is almost impossible. Even low-conversion-ratio ones at 150-200% produce easily 1k strength over 300 seconds, seemingly scaling with conversion too. The result is another inevitable Game Over, even if the player survives the hack. Hacking a ship design doesn't seem to be much weaker and only ever increases the conversion ratio which accelerates the Game Over. The only way not to die at the moment is to completely disregard ANY planet with a DSVG after gate-raiding it, which makes them essentially planet blockers. But since they spawn in so many systems you can't help but at least border on them. This means that every (I think it's 60 minutes) hour the vengeance strike will raid the AI planet and then inevitably attack the player. On that note: In all my time playing I have seen the Dark Spire head for AI planets instead of player planets TWICE, both at the same junction where 3 AI planets border on 1 player planet. These things have it out almost, a few days ago I would have said exclusively for the Player. Seemingly the Macrophages too. Unless the AI is already on the same planet they won't fight it, won't go after those planets. Macrophages will literally ignore everything and just move to the player capital anyway. The Player is the only threat these minor factions ever seem to recognize and attack. These things are out of control and badly in need of balancing. I suggest stopping the conversion ratio from increasing after 100%+([Faction Influence]*50%), so at 150-600% based on influence. This'll keep them in check some more. It's easy to implement and prevents them from becoming just out of this world powerful to the point where the AI is no threat at all compared to the Dark Spire. Also a single vengeance generation cannot exceed 500% total energy. This means that a ship worth 50 strength dying doesn't immediately spawn 10, 15, 20 waves but at most 5. So a single Macrophage or Astro Train doesn't set of a wave ending this and the surrounding planets if there is adequate defenses there. Finally, add a hack to "pacify" a DSVG. Something like a 30 second hack, costing 40 hacking points which reduces the conversion ratio by of the DSVG by 20 and freezes it during the hack and for 0000089:0000030 seconds after (otherwise the ships dying after the hacking response would immediately nullify every gain the player made) as a lead-up for bigger hacks like stealing a ship design and making it vulnerable. There's 3 more secondary issues I have with them. First, to answer the question made in the Patchnotes of version 0.884: Yes. It would probably be a good idea to have the Dark Spire ships stack. Second, to fortify planets with high efficiency DSVGs you almost always need a Battlestation or Citadel, but the turrets will be forever stuck there. If you dare to scrap them the DSVG is going to throw hundreds of strength onto a planet which has just had its defenses taken. Is there a way we could exclude units (or at least immovable constructs) scrapped from causing a frenzy? I know it was patched deliberately in version 0.872 for them to actually do so, but I don't really like the idea. Finally, would it be possible to make the "Hack Dark Spire ship design" an action once per DSVG, not once per galaxy? IF the Dark Spire is actually nerfed to where it doesn't end the game I would actually like to get a few ships from them. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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This is...surprising and confusing. I haven't read of any such cases of them spiraling out in months, even on higher intensities, and these numbers are I think the highest. There's zeusalmightys game on the forums, though that one had a Civil War and was hacked. In that game the Spire killed off two AIs on their own, so they still seem to target AIs as well. It might depend on their position? Badger'd know. Do you have a save where this is starting? I genuinely suspect a bug of some kind. Vengeance Strikes don't seem like a culprit - there's 2 hours between each one. Some of the values here: custom_int_DarkSpire_DefaultConversionRatioLowIntensity="30" custom_int_DarkSpire_DefaultConversionRatioMediumIntensity="50" <-- The one in your case I think. custom_int_DarkSpire_DefaultConversionRatioHighIntensity="70" custom_FInt_DarkSpire_DefaultEnergyThreshold="3500.0" custom_int_DarkSpire_BonusConversionRatioForIntensity="5" custom_int_DarkSpire_BonusConversionRatioPerAttack="10" custom_int_DarkSpire_BaseMinutesBetweenVengeanceStrike="121" custom_int_DarkSpire_TimeInMinutesForFirstVengeanceStrike="115" custom_FInt_DarkSpire_VengeanceStrikeEnergyMultiplier="2.5" custom_int_DarkSpire_EnergyThresholdIncreasePerAttack="1000" The default threshold being 3,500 is interesting. Seems to be even if we go from 50% conversion ratio, up to 200%, which'd be 15 attacks, thus adding on 15,000 threshold...a single spawn should only have 18,500 Strength (18 in game), and not 1,000 in game. EDIT: It appears intensity 5 would start at 75% conversion, which'd require even less attacks to get to 200%. Very weird... |
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Done with making the game spawn a Vengeance Strike 1 minute in, with a 1x multiplier for the spawn, so this should be as if a Generator was fed enough energy. So far as I can tell the Spire can actually go into "debt", in a way, though it doesn't need to pay it back. Essentially it can take that 3,500 energy, buy a bunch of the smaller units which fit in, then pay only 500 energy for an Ediolon, which should actually take 13,000 or so. Earlier Spire attacks seem possible to be far scarier than they should be? Save attached: Look at the planet Pontifex. 2 Specters (1370), 4 Phantoms (177), 3 Wraiths (119) = 3805, just a tad over. Then look at Etzioni, up and to the right a bit. It has 1 Phantom (177), 5 Wraiths (119), and 1 Eidolon (13340) = 14,112. You can look at the other Generator planets and they'll be more like Pontifex. Maybe I've missed/forgotten something though...feel like I have. |
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Currently running this save at high speed to see where it goes. Here's the first part: Both the AI Guardians trickling in, feeding the DSVG and a Mk3 Macrophage producing a world-ending hundreds of strength wave. The planet in question is Costle which at the very start has an "averagely"-charged DSVG at 0000161:0000110%. But that changes rapidly. The Guardians are coming from an Instigator Base in Spides PL, 2 planets to the left of the map, which takes the way through Orilia and comes in in small groups which would be easily killed by both the player and the Dark Spire. There also is a Macrophage there which, once killed, produces a huge wave which at this point could easily be considered world-ending, assuming no steps are taken to stop the trickle or temporarily retreat. If the player retreats it CAN be stopped from spawning more ships, assuming there's not enough on this planet for the AI and the Dark Spire to fight perpetually. But not much longer. |
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I'm currently making a detailed analysis of this so just hang on. |
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Just as a spoiler where it's going: Right now it's at 1005 efficiency. Ever wave spawning has 0000029:0000130 or so strength in it. There's well over 2k zombies on the planet next to the Dark Spire one. |
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Huhm, I have Intensity 10 Dark Spire, firing spawns every few minutes and I don't see these kind of responses. Even when I caused an entire AI planet of over 100 Strength to self destruct with a 190% Vengeance Generator, it only spawned about 110 Strength from the Generator. The save...those Guardians are just following the Instigator behaviour, which is to move to a player Homeworld, clearing every planet en route if possible. So...they don't really consider retreat or anything. I can see that kind of response in there though, somehow. AI even has a much lower value when its stuff gets killed, in terms of generating Energy. |
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Apparently the last change really to Dark Spire was at the start of March, so you seem to be the first person since to get a scenario like this. 3 files here I've tuned a bit: DarkSpire goes into the DarkSpire folder in GameEntity. HarvestRatio goes into the DarkSpire_HarvestRatio folder in Configuration. DarkSpire_Constants goes into the ExternalConstants folder in Configuration. I've lowered the durability of the Eidolon a bit, and it actually costs a bit more than it used to, with the automatic strength calculation. Macrophages give half the energy now when dying, and increased both the base energy threshold, and how much that threshold increases with each spawn. Also halved how much the conversion ratio increases with each spawn. See how that goes? You can tune the numbers yourself with notepad or similar if desired. With those I've managed twice to kill everything with the Generator only at 200% conversion. Incidentally, turns out Anti AI zombies were already set to give almost no energy - only 1%, of anything they kill, or if they themselves die. Seemed to be the case when I watched it, so it clears that possibility. HarvestRatio.xml (1,799 bytes)
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<root>
<!-- to figure out how much energy is derived by a unit dying on a Dark Spire planet,
you multiply the Strength of unit killed by the killing faction's ration_when_killing and the
dying unit's faction ratio_when dying. So if the Devourer kills a human ship then we multiply
the strength of the human ship killed by the human's ratio_when_dying and the devourer's ratio_when_killing.
We provide a Default, then allow overrides for other factions -->
<item name="DefaultRatio"
faction_name="Default"
harvest_ratio_when_dying="1.0"
harvest_ratio_when_killing="1.0"
/>
<item name="HumanRatio"
faction_name="Human"
harvest_ratio_when_dying="1.0"
harvest_ratio_when_killing="1.0"
/>
<item name="AIRatio"
faction_name="AI"
harvest_ratio_when_dying="0.5"
harvest_ratio_when_killing="1.0"
/>
<item name="DarkSpireRatio"
faction_name="DarkSpire"
harvest_ratio_when_dying="0.0"
harvest_ratio_when_killing="1.1"
/>
<item name="MacrophageRatio"
faction_name="Macrophage"
harvest_ratio_when_dying="0.5"
harvest_ratio_when_killing="0.2"
/>
<item name="DevourerRatio"
faction_name="Devourer"
harvest_ratio_when_dying="1.0"
harvest_ratio_when_killing="0.2"
/>
<item name="NanocaustRatio"
faction_name="Nanocaust"
harvest_ratio_when_dying="0.2"
harvest_ratio_when_killing="0.2"
/>
<item name="ZombieRatio"
faction_name="AntiAIZombie"
harvest_ratio_when_dying="0.01"
harvest_ratio_when_killing="0.01"
/>
</root>
DarkSpire.xml (14,558 bytes)
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<root>
<entity name="DarkSpireVengeanceGenerator"
tags="DarkSpire,HackForShipType,VengeanceGeneratorNormalSpawn,VengeanceGenerator,ShowsOnNormalDisplayMode"
draw_in_galaxy_view="true"
visuals="assets/_finalgamemeshes/aibuildings/dysonwarpgate.prefab" gimbal_name="Vengeance Generator"
icon_name="Official/VengeanceGenerator" gimbal_icon_size_multiplier="1.4"
category="Ship"
size_scale="3.6"
visuals_scale_multiplier="3"
y_offset_of_icon="30"
collision_priority="810"
display_name="Vengeance Generator"
description="Mysterious ancient structure that resembles the architecture of a rogue Spire faction. Cannot be damaged, but has no weapons. Nonetheless, it is generating a large amount of power, and that power increases with every ship that dies near the same planet. When a generator reaches critical mass, it (and any other generator in the galaxy) can spawn some very unpleasant ships."
target_type_for_player="NeverTarget"
behavior="Stationary"
does_not_use_multipliers_from_mark_level="true"
starting_mark_level="Mark7" tech_upgrades_that_benefit_me="Unused"
cost_for_ai_to_purchase="1400"
hull_points="20000" shield_points="70000" speed="Immobile"
metal_cost="1085000" energy_consumption="0"
armor_mm="180" albedo="1" mass_tx="2"
immune_to_all_damage="true"
eligible_for_hacks="ProvokeVengeanceStrike,DownloadDarkSpireShip,RenderVengeanceGeneratorVulnerable"
ship_or_structure_explosion_sfx="ShipLostMassive_Explosion"
ship_or_structure_explosion_if_on_other_planet_sfx="ShipLargeLostOnOtherPlanet_Explosion"
ship_or_structure_explosion_sfx_happens_if_not_mine_and_on_other_planet="true"
voice_group="Spire"
description_appender_dll="AIWarExternalCode"
description_appender_type="Arcen.AIW2.External.VengeanceGeneratorDescriptionAppender"
exp_to_grant_on_death="-1"
priority_as_ai_target="IgnoreMe" priority_as_frd_target="IgnoreMe" priority_to_protect="IgnoreMe"
>
</entity>
<entity name="DarkSpireVengeanceGeneratorVulnerable" skip_export="true" copy_from="DarkSpireVengeanceGenerator"
tags="DarkSpire,VengeanceGenerator,ShowsOnNormalDisplayMode,VengeanceGeneratorVulnerable"
immune_to_all_damage="false"
description="Mysterious ancient structure that resembles the architecture of a rogue Spire faction. Having been hacked, this Vengeance Generator can be killed. It is generating a large amount of power, and that power increases with every ship that dies near the same planet. When a generator reaches critical mass, it (and any other generator in the galaxy) can spawn some very unpleasant ships."
hull_points="200000" shield_points="700000" speed="Immobile"
eligible_for_hacks=""
exp_to_grant_on_death="-1"
>
</entity>
<!-- This version of the vengeance generator can be destroyed since it's in production -->
<entity name="DarkSpireVengeanceGeneratorLocus"
tags="DarkSpire,VengeanceGeneratorLocus,ShowsOnNormalDisplayMode"
draw_in_galaxy_view="true"
visuals="assets/_finalgamemeshes/aibuildings/dysonwarpgate.prefab" gimbal_name="Vengeance Generator Locus"
icon_name="Official/VengeanceGenerator" gimbal_icon_size_multiplier="1.4"
category="Ship"
size_scale="3.6"
visuals_scale_multiplier="3"
y_offset_of_icon="30"
collision_priority="810"
display_name="Vengeance Generator Locus"
description="This is an energy Locus that resonates like the Dark Spire Vengeance Generators, but it can be destroyed. If you allow the rest of the Vengeance Generator to warp in then it will become invulnerable."
target_type_for_player="NeverAutotargetButAllowManualTarget"
behavior="Stationary"
does_not_use_multipliers_from_mark_level="true"
starting_mark_level="Mark5" tech_upgrades_that_benefit_me="Unused"
cost_for_ai_to_purchase="1000"
hull_points="20000" shield_points="70000" speed="Immobile"
metal_cost="605000" energy_consumption="0"
armor_mm="180" albedo="1" mass_tx="2"
ship_or_structure_explosion_sfx="ShipLostMassive_Explosion"
ship_or_structure_explosion_if_on_other_planet_sfx="ShipLargeLostOnOtherPlanet_Explosion"
ship_or_structure_explosion_sfx_happens_if_not_mine_and_on_other_planet="true"
voice_group="Spire"
description_appender_dll="AIWarExternalCode"
description_appender_type="Arcen.AIW2.External.VGLocusDescriptionAppender"
exp_to_grant_on_death="-1"
priority_as_ai_target="IrreplaceableBigAsTheyCome" priority_as_frd_target="NotDangerous" priority_to_protect="Irreplaceable"
>
</entity>
<!-- Dark Spire Wards are seeded on AI Overlord planets and repel Dark Spire ships -->
<entity name="DarkSpireWard"
tags="DarkSpireWard"
draw_in_galaxy_view="true"
visuals="assets/arcenbundle/other/smalltemporaryrock.prefab" gimbal_name="Dark Spire Ward"
icon_name="Official/DarkSpireWard" gimbal_icon_size_multiplier="1.4"
category="Ship"
size_scale="1.20"
y_offset_of_icon="30"
collision_priority="810"
display_name="Dark Spire Ward"
description="The AI has figured out a way to disrupt Dark Spire energy using these devices. As long as this Ward remains on the planet, the Dark Spire cannot send its ships to this planet."
target_type_for_player="NeverAutotargetButAllowManualTarget"
behavior="Stationary"
does_not_use_multipliers_from_mark_level="true"
starting_mark_level="Mark2" tech_upgrades_that_benefit_me="Unused"
cost_for_ai_to_purchase="400"
hull_points="20000" shield_points="70000" speed="Immobile"
metal_cost="170000" energy_consumption="0"
armor_mm="180" albedo="1" mass_tx="2"
ship_or_structure_explosion_sfx="ShipLostMassive_Explosion"
ship_or_structure_explosion_if_on_other_planet_sfx="ShipLargeLostOnOtherPlanet_Explosion"
ship_or_structure_explosion_sfx_happens_if_not_mine_and_on_other_planet="true"
voice_group="Spire"
exp_to_grant_on_death="-1"
priority_as_frd_target="MajorPlanetLevelObjective" priority_as_ai_target="MajorPlanetLevelObjective" priority_to_protect="MajorPlanetLevelObjective"
>
</entity>
<entity name="DarkSpireWraith"
tags="WeakDarkSpireSpawn"
special_entity_type="LargeShipYesStacks"
visuals="assets/_finalgamemeshes/guardians/mlrsguardian/mlrsguardian.prefab"
icon_name="Official/DarkSpireWraith"
size_scale="2.1"
visuals_scale_multiplier="3"
category="Ship"
y_offset_of_icon="10"
collision_priority="100"
display_name="Dark Spire Wraith"
description="A weak manifestation of the Dark Spire's Rage at all life."
starting_mark_level="Mark1" tech_upgrades_that_benefit_me="Heavy,Generalist"
cost_for_ai_to_purchase="300" strength_multiplier="1.2"
hull_points="7000" shield_points="14000" speed="BelowAverage2"
metal_cost="16000" energy_consumption="2000"
armor_mm="90" albedo="0.7" engine_gx="18" mass_tx="5"
ship_or_structure_explosion_sfx="ShipStarship_Explosion"
ship_or_structure_explosion_if_on_other_planet_sfx="ShipLargeLostOnOtherPlanet_Explosion"
ship_or_structure_explosion_sfx_happens_if_not_mine_and_on_other_planet="true"
voice_group="Spire"
exp_to_grant_on_death="-1"
priority_as_ai_target="NormalStarship" priority_as_frd_target="BiggerStarship" priority_to_protect="Expendable"
>
<system name="BallisticDoubleshot" display_name="Ballistic Doubleshot"
category="Weapon" firing_timing="OnlyInRange"
damage_per_shot="2800" range="Small2" shot_speed="Normal" rate_of_fire="Normal" fires_salvos_sequentially="true"
shot_type_data="DoubleShot_Red"
>
</system>
</entity>
<entity name="DarkSpirePhantom"
tags="WeakDarkSpireSpawn"
special_entity_type="LargeShipYesStacks"
visuals="assets/_finalgamemeshes/guardians/mlrsguardian/mlrsguardian.prefab"
icon_name="Official/DarkSpirePhantom"
size_scale="2.1"
visuals_scale_multiplier="3"
category="Ship"
y_offset_of_icon="10"
collision_priority="100"
display_name="Dark Spire Phantom"
description="A weak manifestation of the Dark Spire's Rage at all life."
does_not_use_multipliers_from_mark_level="true"
starting_mark_level="Mark1" tech_upgrades_that_benefit_me="Unused"
cost_for_ai_to_purchase="300" strength_multiplier="1.8"
hull_points="3500" shield_points="7000" speed="BelowAverage2"
metal_cost="16000" energy_consumption="2000"
armor_mm="50" albedo="0.4" engine_gx="18" mass_tx="5"
ship_or_structure_explosion_sfx="ShipStarship_Explosion"
ship_or_structure_explosion_if_on_other_planet_sfx="ShipLargeLostOnOtherPlanet_Explosion"
ship_or_structure_explosion_sfx_happens_if_not_mine_and_on_other_planet="true"
voice_group="Spire"
exp_to_grant_on_death="-1"
priority_as_ai_target="NormalStarship" priority_as_frd_target="BiggerStarship" priority_to_protect="Expendable"
>
<system name="PlasmaTorpedo" display_name="Plasma Torpedo"
category="Weapon" firing_timing="OnlyInRange"
damage_per_shot="12000" range="AboveAverage4" shot_speed="Slow" rate_of_fire="VeryLow" fires_salvos_sequentially="true"
shot_type_data="PlasmaTorpedoAOEBurstAtEnd"
area_of_effect_size="500"
aoe_spreads_damage_among_available_targets="true"
>
</system>
</entity>
<entity name="DarkSpireSpecter"
tags="MediumDarkSpireSpawn"
special_entity_type="LargeShipYesStacks"
gimbal_icon_size_multiplier="1.2"
visuals="assets/_finalgamemeshes/guardians/diremagnifierguardian/diremagnifierguardian.prefab"
icon_name="Official/DarkSpireSpecter"
size_scale="3.5"
visuals_scale_multiplier="1"
category="Ship"
y_offset_of_icon="10"
collision_priority="100"
display_name="Dark Spire Spector"
description="A powerful manifestation of the Dark Spire's Rage at all life."
blocks_enemy_claim_flows="true"
does_not_use_multipliers_from_mark_level="true"
starting_mark_level="Mark3" tech_upgrades_that_benefit_me="Unused"
cost_for_ai_to_purchase="900" strength_multiplier="1.2"
hull_points="100000" shield_points="200000" speed="BelowAverage1"
metal_cost="270000" energy_consumption="10000"
armor_mm="120" albedo="0.4" engine_gx="18" mass_tx="5"
ship_or_structure_explosion_sfx="ShipGuardian_Explosion"
ship_or_structure_explosion_if_on_other_planet_sfx="ShipLargeLostOnOtherPlanet_Explosion"
ship_or_structure_explosion_sfx_happens_if_not_mine_and_on_other_planet="true"
voice_group="Spire"
exp_to_grant_on_death="-1"
priority_as_ai_target="MidNasty" priority_as_frd_target="MidNasty" priority_to_protect="SlightlyLessExpendable"
>
<system name="StingerBolt" display_name="Stinger Bolt"
category="Weapon" firing_timing="OnlyInRange"
damage_per_shot="2250" range="Normal3" shot_speed="Normal" rate_of_fire="Normal" fires_salvos_sequentially="false"
shots_per_salvo="8"
shot_type_data="StingerBolt"
>
<outgoing_damage_modifier applies_to="AllShields" based_on="MaxBubbleForcefield" comparison_type="GreaterThan" compared_to="10000" multiplier="4" />
</system>
</entity>
<entity name="DarkSpireEidolon"
tags="StrongDarkSpireSpawn"
special_entity_type="LargeShipYesStacks"
gimbal_icon_size_multiplier="1.4"
visuals="assets/_finalgamemeshes/guardians/direhunterguardian/direhunterguardian.prefab"
icon_name="Official/DarkSpireEidolon"
uses_large_health_bar="true"
category="Ship"
size_scale="5.5"
visuals_scale_multiplier="2.5"
y_offset_of_icon="10"
collision_priority="100"
display_name="Dark Spire Eidolon"
description="A terrifying manifestation of the Dark Spire's Rage at all life."
blocks_enemy_claim_flows="true"
does_not_use_multipliers_from_mark_level="true"
starting_mark_level="Mark5" tech_upgrades_that_benefit_me="Unused"
cost_for_ai_to_purchase="1800" strength_multiplier="3"
hull_points="500000" shield_points="1000000" speed="BelowAverage1"
metal_cost="805000" energy_consumption="25000"
armor_mm="120" albedo="0.3" engine_gx="18" mass_tx="5"
ship_or_structure_explosion_sfx="ShipGuardian_Explosion"
ship_or_structure_explosion_if_on_other_planet_sfx="ShipLargeLostOnOtherPlanet_Explosion"
ship_or_structure_explosion_sfx_happens_if_not_mine_and_on_other_planet="true"
voice_group="Spire"
exp_to_grant_on_death="-1"
priority_as_ai_target="NormalStarship" priority_as_frd_target="BiggerStarship" priority_to_protect="SlightlyLessExpendable"
>
<system name="TeslaCoil" display_name="Tesla Coil"
category="Weapon" firing_timing="OnlyInRange" range="Tiny4" shot_speed="Normal" rate_of_fire="VeryLow" fires_salvos_sequentially="true"
damage_per_shot="2400" shot_type_data="LightningGuardianExplosionAOEShot"
area_of_effect_size="2800"
shots_detonate_immediately="true"
maximum_number_of_targets_hit_per_shot="20"
stack_damage_multiplier="4"
base_enemy_weapon_reload_slowing_seconds_per_shot="8"
enemy_weapon_reload_slowing_to_armor_mm_less_than="101"
>
</system>
<system name="TachyonArray" display_name="Tachyon Array"
category="Passive"
tachyon_points="50" tachyon_range="VeryTiny2"
>
</system>
<system name="EnergyWave" display_name="Sniper Energy Wave"
category="Weapon" firing_timing="OnlyInRange"
damage_per_shot="2400" range="Normal3" shot_speed="VeryFast" rate_of_fire="Normal" fires_salvos_sequentially="true"
shots_per_salvo="8"
shot_type_data="EnergyWave"
>
</system>
</entity>
<entity name="DarkSpireEidolonZenithTrader" skip_export="true" copy_from="DarkSpireEidolon" is_auto_scrapping_skipped_when_command_station_type_changes="true"
metal_cost="805000" build_sidebar_categories_i_am_part_of="StationKeepers"
fleet_membership="Planetary" display_name="Chained Dark Spire Eidolon" display_name_for_sidebar="Chained Eidolon"
description="A terrifying manifestation of the Dark Spire's Rage at all life... now sold by the Zenith Trader."
exp_to_grant_on_death="-1">
<fleet_membership name="ZenithPurchases" ship_cap_group="OtherDefense" weight="100" min="1" max="1"/>
<metal_flow purpose="SelfConstruction" throughput="1000"/>
</entity>
</root>
DarkSpire_Constants.xml (1,339 bytes)
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<root
is_partial_record="true"
custom_int_DarkSpire_DefaultConversionRatioLowIntensity="30"
custom_int_DarkSpire_DefaultConversionRatioMediumIntensity="50"
custom_int_DarkSpire_DefaultConversionRatioHighIntensity="70"
custom_FInt_DarkSpire_DefaultEnergyThreshold="5000.0"
custom_int_DarkSpire_EnergyToShare="500"
custom_int_DarkSpire_LocusWarpInTime="300"
custom_int_DarkSpire_IntervalBetweenAttempedLoci="1800"
custom_int_DarkSpire_BonusConversionRatioForIntensity="5"
custom_int_DarkSpire_BonusConversionRatioPerAttack="5"
custom_int_DarkSpire_PercentToShareEnergy="25"
custom_int_DarkSpire_BaseMinutesBetweenVengeanceStrike="121"
custom_int_DarkSpire_TimeInMinutesForFirstVengeanceStrike="115"
custom_FInt_DarkSpire_VengeanceStrikeEnergyMultiplier="2.5"
custom_int_DarkSpire_MinTimeInMinutesBeforeLocusesAreAllowed="10"
custom_int_DarkSpire_EnergyThresholdIncreasePerAttack="2000"
custom_int_DarkSpire_EnergyIncomePerAIPPerMinute="4"
custom_FInt_DarkSpire_EnergyIncomeMultiplierLowIntensity="0.7"
custom_FInt_DarkSpire_EnergyIncomeMultiplierMediumIntensity="1.0"
custom_FInt_DarkSpire_EnergyIncomeMultiplierHighIntensity="2.0"
>
<!-- energy income is from having the player steal a Dark Spire ship -->
</root>
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Sorry if this is going to be a lot of posts but the page won't let me upload everything at once I guess. I've detailed every step of how this escalates and created a save for everything. s_trickle: The Player, AI, Macrophage, Dark Spire and some extras like Zombies fight on Costle, the main planet where the DSVG is. This is where it all begun. Almost immediately after creating the save I retreated all my forces to Vostea, the planet above. I also didn't kill the Macrophage on this planet but on Vostea instead. AI guardians from the Instigator Base on Spides PL 2 hops to the left are right now the main course of the Dark Spire. s2 catalsysis start: The DSVG is now getting constantly fed by the AI guardians. Conversion Ratio is right now at 0000205:0000145 and rising rapidly. After the guardians have been dealt with the Dark Spire splits around 50/50 heading for Vostea and Saif (which is an AI planet to the right). This planet will now be cleared by the Dark Spire repeatedly. s3 after reconquest: The AI has reconquered Costle. Lots of food for the Dark Spire to grow even stronger. Conversion Ratio is now at 0000072:0000265%. |
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s4 after astrotrain dies: An Astro train has just died on Castle and produced lots and lots of Dark Spire ships. A lot of them head for Vostea and Saif. Conversion ratio is almost at 400%. s5 zombie counterattack: The Zombies have decided to join in and retake Castle. However, the returning Dark Spire forces from Saif keep the chain reaction alive. s6 vengeance strike: As if all of that wasn't enough, now a vengeance strike produces well over 100 Dark Spire strength at a conversion ratio of around 450. |
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s7 after gate raid: Since I realized I was getting killed by the AI sending waves nonstop now I raided the gate on Costle. Didn't lose a lot (if at all). No significance other than to show I did something and didn't just let it run at that point. s8 critical mass: This is where the Dark Spire has acquired almost 500 conversion efficiency and is now rapidly increasing. The REAL exponential growth has begun. Regularly waves will head 50/50 to the player and to Saif when Costle is empty, only for more guardians and other AI ships to fill up Costle to be killed by the Dark Spire ships returning from Saif and so on. s9 about half gathering: Here around half of the Dark Spire ships for a short time remain in the sector. At that point I thought they were staying, but they were quickly splitting up like before too. |
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s10 705 efficiency: The catalysis has reached 705 efficiency and counting... The player now has more zombies than actual EVERYTHING else. s11 1005 efficiency: The catalysis has reached 1005 efficiency and counting... The player has well over 2k Zombies. s12 major new zombie invasion: This is where the last step before the game ends occurs. 1k of zombies invades Costle and conquers it. Until the next vengeance strike at 6 hours. Didn't skip to this point, too long... |
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So, now it uploaded all of the saves. This isn't simply a matter of "oh, this Dark Spire ship is too strong", it's how the Dark Spire snowballs insanely based on 2 factors: Conversion Ratio, which spawns ever more ships, and its enemies strength: Fighting more Dark Spire requires more strength to be used, fighting with more strength gives the Dark Spire not only more ships based on what Player/AI ships die but also increases Conversion Ratio again. So in essence the Dark Spire scales with both Player Strength and game length, if the player is stupid enough to fight them and not secure the entire surrounding area before all the worse. In a single fight at s4 (taking all my ships and invading Castle) quickly builds up over 600 Dark Spire strength. At this point they have already become well beyond invincible. It's simply the way they grow and scale which makes them a much greater threat than the AI is at the same "intensity" level of 5. |
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Having Dark Spire get energy when you scrap units on their planets was specifically requested behaviour by a number of people. |
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Some tweaks have been made. Instigators and Macrophage now provide less energy. The conversion ratio now increases more slowly on lower intensities, and there is a cap to the conversion ratio. The cap includes the AIP when it is calculated so the Dark Spire can get stronger over time. Some additional changes may be made going forward as well. |
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Thank you very much! This was a really important one for me. |
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Also scrapping structures no longer generates energy for the Dark Spire |
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The Dark Spire should be easier to wrangle now |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Sep 20, 2019 9:07 pm | NRSirLimbo | New Issue | |
| Sep 21, 2019 12:34 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Added: 0053214 | |
| Sep 21, 2019 12:46 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Edited: 0053214 | |
| Sep 21, 2019 12:57 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | File Added: DarkSpireBudgetDebt.save | |
| Sep 21, 2019 12:57 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Added: 0053215 | |
| Sep 21, 2019 1:22 pm | NRSirLimbo | File Added: s_trickle.save | |
| Sep 21, 2019 1:22 pm | NRSirLimbo | File Added: s_trickle.savemet | |
| Sep 21, 2019 1:22 pm | NRSirLimbo | Note Added: 0053216 | |
| Sep 21, 2019 1:23 pm | NRSirLimbo | Note Added: 0053217 | |
| Sep 21, 2019 1:31 pm | NRSirLimbo | File Added: s11 1005 efficiency.save | |
| Sep 21, 2019 1:31 pm | NRSirLimbo | File Added: s11 1005 efficiency.savemet | |
| Sep 21, 2019 1:31 pm | NRSirLimbo | Note Added: 0053218 | |
| Sep 21, 2019 1:35 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Added: 0053219 | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:02 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | File Added: HarvestRatio.xml | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:02 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | File Added: DarkSpire.xml | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:02 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | File Added: DarkSpire_Constants.xml | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:02 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Added: 0053220 | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:03 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Edited: 0053220 | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:18 pm | NRSirLimbo | File Added: s_trickle-2.save | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:18 pm | NRSirLimbo | File Added: s_trickle-2.savemet | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:18 pm | NRSirLimbo | File Added: s2 catalysis start.save | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:18 pm | NRSirLimbo | File Added: s2 catalysis start.savemet | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:18 pm | NRSirLimbo | File Added: s3 after reconquest.save | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:18 pm | NRSirLimbo | File Added: s3 after reconquest.savemet | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:18 pm | NRSirLimbo | Note Added: 0053221 | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:24 pm | NRSirLimbo | File Added: s4 after astro train dies.save | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:24 pm | NRSirLimbo | File Added: s4 after astro train dies.savemet | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:24 pm | NRSirLimbo | File Added: s5 zombie counterattack.save | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:24 pm | NRSirLimbo | File Added: s5 zombie counterattack.savemet | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:24 pm | NRSirLimbo | File Added: s6 vengeance strike.save | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:24 pm | NRSirLimbo | File Added: s6 vengeance strike.savemet | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:24 pm | NRSirLimbo | Note Added: 0053222 | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:24 pm | NRSirLimbo | File Added: s7 after gate raid.save | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:24 pm | NRSirLimbo | File Added: s7 after gate raid.savemet | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:24 pm | NRSirLimbo | File Added: s8 critical mass.save | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:24 pm | NRSirLimbo | File Added: s8 critical mass.savemet | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:24 pm | NRSirLimbo | File Added: s9 about half gathering.save | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:24 pm | NRSirLimbo | File Added: s9 about half gathering.savemet | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:24 pm | NRSirLimbo | Note Added: 0053223 | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:25 pm | NRSirLimbo | File Added: s11 1005 efficiency-2.savemet | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:25 pm | NRSirLimbo | File Added: s12 major new zombie invasion.save | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:25 pm | NRSirLimbo | File Added: s12 major new zombie invasion.savemet | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:25 pm | NRSirLimbo | File Added: s10 705 efficiency.save | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:25 pm | NRSirLimbo | File Added: s10 705 efficiency.savemet | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:25 pm | NRSirLimbo | File Added: s11 1005 efficiency-2.save | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:25 pm | NRSirLimbo | Note Added: 0053224 | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:30 pm | NRSirLimbo | Note Added: 0053226 | |
| Sep 21, 2019 2:35 pm | BadgerBadger | Note Added: 0053227 | |
| Sep 23, 2019 2:09 pm | BadgerBadger | Note Added: 0053250 | |
| Sep 23, 2019 2:12 pm | NRSirLimbo | Note Added: 0053251 | |
| Sep 23, 2019 2:37 pm | BadgerBadger | Note Added: 0053252 | |
| Sep 23, 2019 5:09 pm | BadgerBadger | Assigned To | => BadgerBadger |
| Sep 23, 2019 5:09 pm | BadgerBadger | Status | new => resolved |
| Sep 23, 2019 5:09 pm | BadgerBadger | Resolution | open => fixed |
| Sep 23, 2019 5:09 pm | BadgerBadger | Fixed in Version | => 0.891 Vast Tracts of... Ship Graphics |
| Sep 23, 2019 5:09 pm | BadgerBadger | Note Added: 0053253 |
