View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0021582 | AI War 2 | Bug - Other | Sep 5, 2019 1:41 pm | Sep 30, 2019 4:21 pm | |
| Reporter | Ribald | Assigned To | Chris_McElligottPark | ||
| Severity | minor | ||||
| Status | resolved | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Product Version | 0.886 Zombie Homebodies | ||||
| Fixed in Version | 0.893 Usability and Tutorial Prep | ||||
| Summary | 0021582: Error when starting game with low planet count | ||||
| Description | When a new patch comes out I typically make a low planet count game and rush through looking for any glaring bugs. Trying to do so now will give multiple errors of the type "Failed to find planet to seed tag..." with a variety of different SpecialEntityTypes. This was actually a problem a couple patches ago, but unfortunately I was unable to report it then (thanks life). I was hoping someone else would catch it, but apparently I'm the only one playing low planet counts. The minimum number of planets needed to avoid the bug changes depending on galaxy type and the seed, but most seem to need 43+ to avoid error. Easy to replicate, just start a custom game with a minimum planet count. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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This is technically not a bug per se, but something where it needs to give a better error message. Basically the error should simply say "Based on your settings, there weren't enough planets to seed X important ships or structures. You'll need to increase the planet count." |
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Whatever it should be classified I'll leave up to you. Personally I'd classify it as a bug with the way the planets counts are set now, and I was tempted to classify it as a major one, as it stops a player from starting a game, but since there haven't been any reports for it in three patches (including the latest) I figured I was the only one dropping the planet count low and it is easy enough to get around once you realize the problem. As the game is currently, different galaxy types have different minimums and maximums. For instance, Realistic allows you to choose a minimum of 40 and a maximum of 100 while Linked Rings allows for a minimum of 10 and a maximum of 300. Whether new functionality needs to be added for the error, a change in the minimum planets needs to be done, a work around so the amount of entity's being added to a map is limited to the minimum planet count, or something else entirely I'll leave up to you. I don't think a warning stating you need to increase the amount of planets is the way to go though, as that just adds an unnecessary step for the player, more so since currently there won't ever be a circumstance where choosing 10 planets will work. I do know that in the past the error occurred as well, but the game would still start and allow you to play even if you were missing the fleets, battle-stations etc. after clicking past the error. Also, at some point the minimum number of planets was increased and the error no longer occurred, at least for the X style galaxy that I prefer to test new patches on. I don't know if there is a design goal to have a certain minimum amount of planets, but increasing them all to 50 would likely be the easiest fix. That does, however, limit players who want a smaller and faster game. It could also just delay the problem from coming back if more Entity options are added to the game and consequentially need to be loaded into a galaxy. As such, checking how many planets are desired and limiting the Entity count may be the best long term solution. I don't have knowledge of the inner workings of the game with regards to how many fleets, battle stations, etc. are selected to fill a given galaxy, but it seems like it is either a fixed number or at least a minimum number. Perhaps a better way of managing it would be to do away with the fixed/minimum number and have it calculated based on planet count. For example X fleets per Y planets. This could be done for each entity type and they could even get a slider in the options to make it player adjustable instead of the multiplier currently in game. If this was the route taken an error stating "Based on your settings, there weren't enough planets to seed X important ships or structures. You'll need to increase the planet count." One last thing I noticed while typing this up. The issue is being caused, or at least made worse, by the fact Advanced Research Stations are set to block other capturables from being generated on a planet. |
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The main thing is that the game assumes that there are at least 60ish planets, as it wasn't really designed for fewer than that. We added the ability to have fewer, but the more factions you turn on, the more it needs. There's also some sharp rules about what can and can't coexist, and that can mess with things. Depending on the galaxy options selected (extra fleets, etc, or fewer), the number of AI factions, the number of other factions, and so forth, the minimum planet count could be really different. And the planets that are next to one another, etc. We also routinely add new categories of things that block other things, and that doesn't really work well with low planet counts in terms of how they play, sometimes. Basically it's really not meant to be played with fewer than 60ish planets and if people didn't complain I'd just make that the minimum planet count. Anything smaller than that makes scouting trivial and removes kinda-key features like deepstriking, etc, from being very relevant. And the scaling of AIP gets shortcutted. But last time I tried to make the minimum count larger, people got kinda mad. So they can try the lower planet counts, but it needs to warn them when they hit whatever the cap is for the specific map, which is something I can't predict with any accuracy unfortunately since it proceeds ahead blindly and is based so heavily on settings. If you enable a lot of factions, past a certain point 60 isn't enough planets, either. |
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Perhaps you can change the default selection to 60 planets and if a player lowers it have some red text to the side explain that problems may occur and then if the galaxy fails to initialize have a pop up explain the situation and how to fix it; lower multipliers, lower number of factions, or increase planet amount. It is unfortunate, but no surprise you can't calculate the amount before the galaxy initializes, but can the amount of entities be counted while the galaxy tries to initialize? If so that count could be used in the error box so players know the minimum number of planets they would need with their current settings. |
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I can tell the player how many things were unable to seed, but there's not a definite correlation that increasing the planet count by exactly that amount will lead to everything fitting. If you have not enough room for 9 things, but you increase the size by 9, it might try to seed an extra thing or two because of the bits that are based on how many planets there are, or based on other factors. So it's likely that increasing by 9 would work, but something more like 11-15 more would be sure. I think the game defaults to 80 or 100 planets right now, which is the expected game style here. Defaulting to 60 would be defaulting to the bare minimum, not a normal "healthy" game style. Even with 60 planets, it makes it so scouting isn't so much of a thing, deepstriking isn't as dramatic, etc. But your points are taken, for sure. |
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Hi, Chris! I have a suggestion too. Is it possible to completely disable this window with message? I mean players should not see it. It's creepy and we must close it every time. Instead there can be a message "Not enought planets" (without a new window). It can be shown on the place of "Start game" button. And when you moves mouse to this sign, it will give the full tip about what to do. When the player will choose more planets, "Start game" button will be active again. |
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I'm concerned that would feel like the game is hung if they don't happen to notice the message in the bottom area there, but certainly making the message more brief and so on would be good. I really have not been expecting people to be trying such small maps with such frequency that they'd see it much at all, so it hasn't been a priority for me... |
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After release new players will try smallest maps for sure. Like a "Tiny map" in usual strategy games :) |
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The message may flicker. So people will not think the game is stuck. The main reason I don't like standalone window - 1 more click to close it. Logic of the player - ok, I will add one more planet. Oh, this message again. Have to close it again to choose more planets. And again... |
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Thanks! * The entire mapgen code logic for what ships block which other ships has been redone. ** Previously it was very hard-and-fast in terms of "you can go here or not," which wasn't super helpful on crowded maps or on very small maps. ** Now it instead looks at things which are completely blocking early -- namely an entire faction taking over a planet, which is rare -- and then it gets more flexible with everything else. ** After it seeds those early things, it then makes a strong attempt to keep the number of big good things spread apart, but no longer tries to separate them from big bag things. We also have small good and small bad things that we try to keep spread apart in their own category, but that we don't care about overlapping beyond that. ** This actually will add more texture in ALL games, not just crowded or small-map ones. Essentially you're more likely to see some planets that are "extra good" with lots of cool stuff, or "a real mixed bag" with awesome stuff and super scary stuff, whereas before thosee were always kept rigidly separate. ** This also fixes the issue of a lot of small maps being unable to generate because they didn't have enough room to seed everything. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Sep 5, 2019 1:41 pm | Ribald | New Issue | |
| Sep 5, 2019 2:24 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0052861 | |
| Sep 5, 2019 3:36 pm | Ribald | Note Added: 0052864 | |
| Sep 5, 2019 3:50 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0052865 | |
| Sep 5, 2019 4:20 pm | Ribald | Note Added: 0052868 | |
| Sep 5, 2019 4:23 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0052869 | |
| Sep 5, 2019 4:24 pm | UFO | Note Added: 0052870 | |
| Sep 5, 2019 4:34 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0052871 | |
| Sep 5, 2019 4:47 pm | UFO | Note Added: 0052874 | |
| Sep 5, 2019 4:56 pm | UFO | Note Added: 0052875 | |
| Sep 30, 2019 4:21 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Assigned To | => Chris_McElligottPark |
| Sep 30, 2019 4:21 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Status | new => resolved |
| Sep 30, 2019 4:21 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Resolution | open => fixed |
| Sep 30, 2019 4:21 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Fixed in Version | => 0.893 Usability and Tutorial Prep |
| Sep 30, 2019 4:21 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0053333 |
