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IDProjectCategoryLast Update
0020022AI War 2[All Projects] Gameplay IssueAug 29, 2018 12:59 pm
ReporterBadgerBadgerAssigned Tox4000Bughunter 
Severityminor 
Status resolvedResolutionfixed 
Product Version0.762 Spreadshot 
Fixed in Version 
Summary0020022: A few comments from playing this evening
DescriptionInhibiting Tesla turrets and corvettes are terrifying. I lost multiple "Fleet with 4 planets worth of ships and tech" trying to take out a mark 2 planet with a bunch of tesla turrets. Is there any counter to them? I don't have anything tanky enough to get in close and survive a more than a few ships. There aren't enough starships, and fleetships just die by the capfull.

If the AI has stacked gravity turrets, your ships can be reduced to 1 speed, which means that they are basically helpless to long range turrets on a planet. Here's a game that shows this. Perhaps the max slow from gravity should be capped? Or we need more units that have powerful engines.

Engineers would repair my drones even when the carrier had left for another planet, which seemed to limit the number of drones I could actually have in the battles. I vote that drones should not be repairable if their mother craft isn't on the planet.

Carrier starships only ever produce Mark 1 ships. I feel like carrier drones need to be upgraded or there's not much point.

I was playing on difficulty 5 with a few minor factions, all pretty much friendly. I managed to take 3 planets (so 70 AIP), then I was literally unable to make progress. After like 30 minutes of effort I took out the planet with the tesla turrets, then ran into either a Mark 4 planet with an ion cannon or a huge nest of gravity turrets that prevented my ships from getting in range. You can observe this in the save game. Possibly people who are better than I am at the game may be able to make progress from there?

A few null reference exceptions of the form
ErrorsReportedByEngine: -----------
NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
Stack Trace: Arcen.AIW2.ExternalVisualization.SquadVisualizer.UpdateSquadStatusFromEntity () (at <becc6f1f5bf84e15aa42ee11b2c4dc7a>:0)
Arcen.AIW2.ExternalVisualization.BattlefieldVisualSingleton.HandleSquadAndShipUpdates () (at <becc6f1f5bf84e15aa42ee11b2c4dc7a>:0)
Arcen.AIW2.ExternalVisualization.BattlefieldVisualSingleton.RunPlanetUpdateTree () (at <becc6f1f5bf84e15aa42ee11b2c4dc7a>:0)
Arcen.AIW2.ExternalVisualization.BattlefieldVisualSingleton.RunUpdate () (at <becc6f1f5bf84e15aa42ee11b2c4dc7a>:0)
ArcenMainGameVisuals.Update () (at <f9bddf47e56642b7b8df4adc57461147>:0)

I also tagged
-----------
NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
Stack Trace: GalaxyMapPlanet.UpdateEntitiesShownAtPlanetInternal (Arcen.AIW2.Core.Planet planet) (at <48db6da7d0184eda904e371ebf6631ad>:0)
Arcen.AIW2.Core.GalaxyMapPlanetBase.UpdateEntitiesShownAtPlanet () (at <cb226b0269ac416d9268f93eab54afea>:0)
Arcen.AIW2.Core.GalaxyMapPlanetBase.UpdateGalaxyMapVisualsIfNeeded () (at <cb226b0269ac416d9268f93eab54afea>:0)
Arcen.AIW2.Core.Planet.UpdateVisualObj (System.Boolean IsCurrentPlanet) (at <cb226b0269ac416d9268f93eab54afea>:0)
Arcen.AIW2.Core.Galaxy.UpdateVisuals () (at <cb226b0269ac416d9268f93eab54afea>:0)
PresentationLayer_AIW2.UpdateGameController () (at <48db6da7d0184eda904e371ebf6631ad>:0)
Arcen.AIW2.Core.Engine_AIW2.OnUpdate () (at <cb226b0269ac416d9268f93eab54afea>:0)
Arcen.Universal.Engine_Universal.OnUpdateFromMainThread () (at <c86b3dead5f04624993a2549d82870b6>:0)
ArcenGameController.Update () (at D:/vclarge/AI_War_2_Ultra/AIW2Unity/Assets/ArcenCode/ArcenGameController.cs:86)
 I think this was in the tutorial
TagsNo tags attached.

Activities

HeartHunter7

Aug 29, 2018 3:58 am

reporter   ~0048431

Use sentinel frigates for kill them all and then tank with Ark for finish it.
Invisible units with big damage too ez way for win or shield Ark+other small ships.

RocketAssistedPuffin

Aug 29, 2018 7:09 am

developer   ~0048435

Own comments on it, before this update.

Tesla does seem scary, but never had an issue with AI turrets, by using Raid Starships (which I feel are already a problem...they seem too good, even before nerfing Tachyons and giving these things fusion bombs. I have a feeling I could get very far with just them offensively).

Tesla Corvettes for me died en masse without doing much. VS MLRS, though.

Definitely need more tools. From what I've read everyone wants the Shield Starship above all others, and I can't disagree, it is too useful. Other than more fleetships, I don't think there's much else you can get. This is where my comments about Cloakers and Transports came from. Soon as the mechanics for Cloakers to exist are in, if they are, I'll put the ship together.

Gravity I did find annoying. You can almost get permanently stuck just by wandering into an overlapping field once. So far I haven't found anything that avoids them or tractors, other than the Ark itself.

I did a test at AI diff 7, and got three planets in with the same problem. A single AI reinforcement wave consisted of over 400 MLRS Corvettes, then they had *another* reinforcement of a ton of Raiders and Cutlasses.

On what Hunter said, I have found that range is king, simply. Range and cloaking. I could not in any way fight the AI directly, in any battle, I always had to have something to make me immune to counter fire. I know you're meant to be sneaky (outside of things like superweapons), but other than sniper units and Raids, there's...not much else I can think of to use.

There's no save attached, but I'll give another go. AI Diff 7 became a semi joke for me in Classic, so I'll base testing on that purely, as the "default" of sorts.

BadgerBadger

Aug 29, 2018 9:29 am

manager   ~0048447

Last edited: Aug 29, 2018 9:35 am

View 2 revisions

I was playing without an Ark, and I don't have any way of getting sentinel frigates. I don't know if we need Shield Starship, but we definitely do need more things we can buy.



Stuck ships.savemet (52 bytes)
Stuck ships.save (1,364,273 bytes)

HeartHunter7

Aug 29, 2018 9:34 am

reporter   ~0048449

You can play agressive tower defence for every planet and losing a lot of time for kill every tesla tower :D

RocketAssistedPuffin

Aug 29, 2018 9:47 am

developer   ~0048456

So far I've been somewhat successful, though the hordes of AI reinforcements haven't shown up.

MK3 Concussion Corvettes are key for their range, as are Raid Starships for things like Tesla Turrets. Their fusion bomb weapon is now very, very good for a lot of targets. They effectively are my bombers now.

V-Wings have been useful just to catch these annoyingly speedy things.

Ark hasn't been super useful, more convenient (Orchid) for general engineering work, so not affecting the game much.

Bonus ship are Snipers, but can't find anything for their damage bonus so somewhat irrelevant.

BadgerBadger

Aug 29, 2018 10:13 am

manager   ~0048461

I agree that using beachheading would work, but the game on difficulty 5 shouldn't be hard enough that I need to beachhead to take a Mark II planet at < 100 AIP.

HeartHunter7

Aug 29, 2018 10:28 am

reporter   ~0048465

Then restart, Thanatis and with faceroll get half of galaxy :D

x4000Bughunter

Aug 29, 2018 10:42 am

administrator   ~0048467

Last edited: Aug 29, 2018 11:18 am

View 2 revisions

Thanks! Particularly for the save. Thing 1:

* Fixed a bug where the gravity multipliers from turrets were being applied twice, plus having another clamp that was inappropriately lowering things.
** Also made it so that there is now a cap on how slow ships can be knocked from gravity sources that is speed 80 (can be tweaked in external constants with min_move_speed_for_mobile). Engine stun can of course make them slower than that.

x4000Bughunter

Aug 29, 2018 11:17 am

administrator   ~0048471

This savegame has been a goldmine for me. :)

* FINALLY and definitively fixed the screen flashing bug, which was an issue with the scale of gimbals getting massive on death when their squad would zoom off to ArcenPoint.OutOfRange.
** This is now capped so that the icons can't ever get that huge, and you should just see the icon flash big in the center of your screen if it were to have the issue now (from some other source of the squad zooming off inappropriately).
** But more importantly, we also fixed the underlying issue with the squads zooming off out of range. This was probably the culprit in some other cases, too.

BadgerBadger

Aug 29, 2018 11:20 am

manager   ~0048472

Here's another save game (from an earlier point) where high-mark carriers starships are producing mark1 1 ships

test1.save (1,165,399 bytes)
test1.savemet (52 bytes)

x4000Bughunter

Aug 29, 2018 12:19 pm

administrator   ~0048482

More changes:

* A TON of balance work has been done, making ships in general do about 10x less damage than they did before... except for a lot of the fleetships, which were already a lot lower than the larger ships. These now do something like half or two thirds of what they did before, or in a few cases very close to what they did before.
** Overall the idea is that battles should actually last more than an instant now, and in particular the Tesla Turrets have been heavily nerfed so that they don't eat everything.
** This is probably an appropriate range for ships in terms of how fast they kill fleetships, but it may be that starships and other large structures now last too long. Not really sure, we'll see. Hopefully the game doesn't become too slow-feeling from this, but rather just slow-feeling in spots that we can correct.
** This may have even further marginalized snipers, it's hard to say. If anyone wants to fiddle with their balance, please feel free to tell us what you find.

RocketAssistedPuffin

Aug 29, 2018 12:29 pm

developer   ~0048484

Ooo, new balance.

You devs are sure on fire today.

For combat speed, this is probably a really good step in the right direction. I recall Classic was much slower.

x4000Bughunter

Aug 29, 2018 12:44 pm

administrator   ~0048485

More:

* Put in some protection logic for preventing nullrefs in UpdateSquadStatusFromEntity, and code that will give us a better idea where the nullrefs are if we didn't get them.
** Same for UpdateEntitiesShownAtPlanetInternal on galaxy map planets.

x4000Bughunter

Aug 29, 2018 12:59 pm

administrator   ~0048486

Drones now definitely work at proper mark level:

* Player ships will no longer downgrade themselves to the "current" mark level of the player's ships if somehow the player has a higher-mark version of them.
** This is particularly relevant for drones that are spawned, but also for zombies, etc. This changes a lot in terms of power on the player side (doesn't affect AIs or other factions, since they don't use this logic anyway).

Thanks!

And thanks for the kind words, Puffin. :)

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
Aug 29, 2018 12:27 am BadgerBadger New Issue
Aug 29, 2018 12:27 am BadgerBadger Summary A few critiques => A few comments from playing this evening
Aug 29, 2018 3:58 am HeartHunter7 Note Added: 0048431
Aug 29, 2018 7:09 am RocketAssistedPuffin Note Added: 0048435
Aug 29, 2018 9:29 am BadgerBadger File Added: Stuck ships.savemet
Aug 29, 2018 9:29 am BadgerBadger File Added: Stuck ships.save
Aug 29, 2018 9:29 am BadgerBadger Note Added: 0048447
Aug 29, 2018 9:34 am HeartHunter7 Note Added: 0048449
Aug 29, 2018 9:35 am BadgerBadger Note Edited: 0048447 View Revisions
Aug 29, 2018 9:47 am RocketAssistedPuffin Note Added: 0048456
Aug 29, 2018 10:13 am BadgerBadger Note Added: 0048461
Aug 29, 2018 10:28 am HeartHunter7 Note Added: 0048465
Aug 29, 2018 10:42 am x4000Bughunter Note Added: 0048467
Aug 29, 2018 11:17 am x4000Bughunter Note Added: 0048471
Aug 29, 2018 11:18 am x4000Bughunter Note Edited: 0048467 View Revisions
Aug 29, 2018 11:20 am BadgerBadger File Added: test1.savemet
Aug 29, 2018 11:20 am BadgerBadger File Added: test1.save
Aug 29, 2018 11:20 am BadgerBadger Note Added: 0048472
Aug 29, 2018 12:19 pm x4000Bughunter Note Added: 0048482
Aug 29, 2018 12:29 pm RocketAssistedPuffin Note Added: 0048484
Aug 29, 2018 12:44 pm x4000Bughunter Note Added: 0048485
Aug 29, 2018 12:59 pm x4000Bughunter Assigned To => x4000Bughunter
Aug 29, 2018 12:59 pm x4000Bughunter Status new => resolved
Aug 29, 2018 12:59 pm x4000Bughunter Resolution open => fixed
Aug 29, 2018 12:59 pm x4000Bughunter Note Added: 0048486