View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0009038 | Valley 1 | Suggestion | Jul 24, 2012 7:50 am | Jul 26, 2012 11:20 am | |
| Reporter | Pyrrhic | Assigned To | |||
| Status | considering | Resolution | open | ||
| Product Version | 1.200 (Post-Launch Series 2) | ||||
| Summary | 0009038: Reroll options: "Tend towards higher-X characters" | ||||
| Description | Idea generated by discussion on 0009007, about making rerolling less of a hassle for those seeking specific stats. --- Suggestion: The reroll system as it is now, except there are three checkboxes on the right: "tend towards higher-attack characters", "tend towards higher-health characters", and "tend towards higher-mana characters". You could select as many as you wanted: one check would give you higher-mana characters as you re-rolled; two checks would prefer those two stats (at the expense of the unchecked one); and all three checks would produce relatively balanced characters. Zero checks would make the rerolling truly random, as it is now (modified by your Era, of course). There would still be some variation with every (re)roll - but the check marks would, say, ensure that the mana of the character was something like in the upper third of possibilities. Note that this wouldn't give characters higher stats overall; if you had "higher mana" checked, then your attack and health could never reach their highest. This just affects the distribution of your initial stats - it doesn't give you any more "stat points" to begin with. The only possible drawback I can think of to this, is that people will become complacent with the health/attack/mana rerolling system, and will start complaining about having to reroll too much to get the random modifiers they want. "Ah well, such is human nature?" I dunno. I feel like this idea will do good, all in all. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
| Internal Weight | Feature Suggestion | ||||
| child of | 0009007 | considering | Alternative to Reroll -- "Challenge Death" |
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i like this. but i'd also suggest an option for "tend towards low-X characters". i personally go for characters with high health and mp, and ignore the attack stat. |
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Short answer: You could do that by checking both 'high health' and 'high MP', while leaving the last one unchecked. Much longer answer: It seems like changing the reroll system is a balance between two things: ~ Giving the players exactly what they want (reducing how often they feel they must reroll or suicide). To do this perfectly, let players select just what they want from a new character. No rolling, just allocatable points. ~ Keeping the player from playing with the same character every time (which makes character death seem really unimportant, and encourages players to stick to certain habits, making the game feel less varied.) To do this perfectly, the computer would randomly pick everything about a newly generated character: one roll that you're stuck with, 'til that character dies. I think my idea is a better balance between the two than the current system. Players couldn't choose their exact stats, but they could "encourage" the dice in certain ways. My idea's intended function is to keep the character-rolling system as it is now, but limit how much players feel like they have to "reroll 50+ times". Now, there are a couple specific things you can do if you have both 'low X' and 'high X' boxes, which you can't do if you only have 'high X' boxes (see below*). But with those options, I think the player would have so much control over their stats, that they may as well choose how they want them specifically allocated. On a lesser note, having 6 options to choose from (3 'high X', 3 'low X') from may seem a bit confusing. (Note that there'd be some overlap: having all 3 'high X' checked would do the same thing as having all 3 'low X' checked, namely balancing the three stats.) *: ---If you have 'high health' with 'low attack and low MP', then the system would always come up with (something like) the top 2 health options, and throw the rest of the points rather evenly between attack & mp. --- Two 'high X' and one 'low X' is kind of the opposite: it makes low X be in the bottom 2, giving the rest of the points evenly to the other 2. --- One 'high X' and one 'low X' tells one stat to be really high, another stat to be really low, and the unchecked stat to be somewhere in between. |
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one thing I've noticed is that there seems to be a "point" limit among the stats. For instance, I tried making a char with 250 mana, and maximizing attack & hp, but what I saw is that there were discrete values that each took (attack was 15% steps, hp was a bit higher). Say I found a 105% attack, the highest hp was about 150, but with a 90% attack, the maximum hp I saw would go higher, say 185. If there is indeed a "point" system behind the scenes, and the distribution of points is the thing randomized, why not just let the player pick the attributes the various points are allocated to? |
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Upon reflection, the random allocation of points coupled with the other two bonus features does make things a bit more random, less prone to character "builds" |
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I am against designer glyphbearers. You should have to work with what you're given. I realize that's a rather extreme view, though, and thus will explain what I see from both sides. If it is possible for a player to roll an "optimal" hero, then they will roll until they receive that roll, unless it is absurdly unlikely. I experienced this when playing the MMO Maplestory several years ago. Players creating new characters would reroll literally hundreds of times until they got 4/4/x/4 stats. This gets frustrating for the player, and can be seen as a negative trait in a game. Maplestory has since changed to a point allocation system, since there were obvious optimalities and it cut down complaints and cut out tedium. If you make an allocation system, players will seek out optimal strategies, and then stick to what they believe is "best". Randomization forces trying and working with new things, and the higher the barrier to reroll-optimization, the more they're forced to choose new heroes and methods of playing (and the more frustrated stubborn players who want to stick with what they know will be). This is a design decision up to the creators. Do they want players to deal with what they're given, or do they want to give players the ability to seek an optimal glyphbearer? If the latter, how high will the barrier towards optimality be? Point distribution is 0 barrier, pre-reroll button was very high barrier, post-reroll button is medium barrier. Suggestion would be lower-barrier, of course. Ideally, there's no best choice, but people still acquire tastes and preferences. Is it a good thing or a bad thing to force people to try different things? Bad if different = worse, good if different = still good, or bad in a non-noticable way, from a player's point a view. Ultimately, rerolls are a coercive force towards experimentation, and are bothersome to those who either don't want to or don't need to experiment (they have preferences). Is that what's wanted, by players and the game creators? I said no to this since there is an underlying point distribution mechanism, and access to that would be a far simpler and more direct route than saying "I want high x stat, medium y stat and low z stat". I don't think experimentation needs to be forced. I think if players tend to play certain types of glyphbearers, then other glyphbearers need to be made more appealing (or, if overall level of strength will become too high, the frequently-picked may need to be nerfed). Just give different eras different base stats, and then allow point distribution from there (within the limits already provided by rerolling). That would be simpler. And death needs a real cost, not just "aw, now I have to click Reroll an average of 25 times". |
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makes sense and I support the outcome either way. I basically hit the reroll button until I get the point distribution that I would allocate anyway, along with decent bonuses |
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Makes sense, Blahness. Now I'm leaning towards: each era has 3 characters you can choose from, which you can't reroll. If you like high MP, choose an era with high MP (provided that you've unlocked it). |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Jul 24, 2012 7:50 am | Pyrrhic | New Issue | |
| Jul 24, 2012 7:50 am | Pyrrhic | Relationship added | child of 0009007 |
| Jul 24, 2012 7:50 am | Pyrrhic | Description Updated | |
| Jul 24, 2012 10:50 am | tigersfan | Internal Weight | => Feature Suggestion |
| Jul 24, 2012 10:50 am | tigersfan | Status | new => considering |
| Jul 24, 2012 4:11 pm | Leafy Greens | Note Added: 0027106 | |
| Jul 24, 2012 7:15 pm | Pyrrhic | Note Added: 0027115 | |
| Jul 24, 2012 11:57 pm | theqmann | Note Added: 0027121 | |
| Jul 24, 2012 11:58 pm | theqmann | Note Added: 0027122 | |
| Jul 25, 2012 10:40 pm | Blahness | Note Added: 0027148 | |
| Jul 25, 2012 10:41 pm | Blahness | Note Edited: 0027148 | |
| Jul 25, 2012 10:42 pm | Blahness | Note Edited: 0027148 | |
| Jul 25, 2012 10:50 pm | theqmann | Note Added: 0027149 | |
| Jul 26, 2012 11:20 am | Pyrrhic | Note Added: 0027156 | |
| Apr 14, 2014 9:28 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Category | Suggestion - General Idea => Suggestion - General |
| Apr 14, 2014 9:30 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Category | Suggestion - General => Suggestion |
