View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0009007 | Valley 1 | Suggestion | Jul 21, 2012 4:33 am | Jul 24, 2012 10:01 am | |
| Reporter | Matthew Carras | Assigned To | |||
| Status | considering | Resolution | open | ||
| Product Version | 1.200 (Post-Launch Series 2) | ||||
| Summary | 0009007: Alternative to Reroll -- "Challenge Death" | ||||
| Description | I'm one of those perfectionists who likes to have perfect stats on his characters, and also the right character type, so whenever I die, and I do die, I spend ages on reroll. Now you may be thinking to yourself, "Well you're cheating the system!" But I think reroll is there for a reason. However, it is insanely boring to go through reroll, so I propose an alternative: "Challenge Death" In Challenge Death, you literally challenge the forces of the afterlife to a series of nearly impossible puzzles one after the other. This should be a long and tedious process and you will die/fail over and over again. The idea here is to NOT be any faster or easier than a reroll, in fact it should take longer on average, just an alternative to those of us sick of hitting "reroll" over and over again who do that sort of thing. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
| Internal Weight | Feature Suggestion | ||||
| parent of | 0009038 | considering | Reroll options: "Tend towards higher-X characters" | |
| Not all the children of this issue are yet resolved or closed. | ||||
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I like the rough idea, but I'm not so sure it should be a puzzle. I'm thinking more of an "escape-the-underworld" thing, where (before you do any rerolls) there's a button to try escaping the underworld instead. (This would likely involve climbing up out of a cave, with the cave being packed with overlevelled enemies of all regions.) I'd also say it should be one-chance-only; if you die when you try to escape the underworld, that's it. Possibly as a variant, this could be made into a rare item instead, in which case you'd need to pick a new character and use the item to start this mission, whereupon it'd be similar to a survivor rescue in cave but with much nastier enemies. (It'd be worth also making it so the rescuee is a "ghost", immune to damage and unable to attack, to avoid it becoming too impossible due to survivor movement delay turning it into one of the more annoying forms of escort mission.) |
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Some other possibilities: As a ghost, you have the option of trying to make it back to the settlement, at which point you'll be revived. Possible features: you can fly; you can't use items; can't use items, nor spells; get hit once, and you fail; reduced health + no health regen, lose all of it and you fail. Some way to revive the ghost of a dead character, upon making contact with it w/ another character. I'm thinking a scroll that costs 10k shards from the opal guardian, and/or is an especially rare stash item. |
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Why not just replace the "reroll" system with something like distributable points, or something like in other RPGs? The re-roll thing sounded like a good idea at first, but mostly it's just REALLY annoying. Every time I do it, I'm reminded of exactly why RPGs dont use that system anymore. They could keep the 2 additional attributes random, but have you just put points into the main stats when it comes time to make a new character. It'd just be much less obnoxious. With my current playstyle, I'm usually using an Industrial Revolution character, and I tend to use heavy spells pretty often. Anytime I make a new character, be it after death or via a retirement scroll, I *will* sit there and click the bloody button 8 bazillion times until I get a character that has 350 or 400 base mana, and health/attack that isnt horrendous. So the system ends up just seeming kinda pointless. There's probably all sorts of other ways it could be done.... maybe a seperate Mantis thing for replacement ideas? |
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^ I dunno, it seems on-topic to me. This idea starts like "when I die, I reroll an awful lot, and here's one way I propose that be less annoying." I'm guessing that the reroll system is there to encourage players to try different builds? |
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I don't like the idea of designer glyphbearers (distributable points). There's a limited number of survivors - finding perfect people would be incredibly unlikely. I like the idea of having to make do with what you're given. Of course, I hold the extremist view that a settlement should start with 5 to 10 people, and if they all die, you lose/have to go to a different continent. It would make rescuing survivors far more important, and provide a better "feel" for me. I don't like the "reroll" characters appearing out of nowhere, and disappearing into the void the moment new character selection is complete. Earning the right to keep your hero's interesting, though, so I'll give moderate support to this idea. |
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I don't like this idea. I'm more of a "play with the cards you are dealt" kind of player, and feel that even the reroll option provided is a bit too much. I know one of the reasons it was provided was because players would constantly suicide until they got what they wanted, but I'd rather the solution to that have been something more along the line with what Blahness recommended. |
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Normally I'd go for the idea that Blahness suggested here, but in this case, I dont think it'd work. Mostly, it'd just end up screwing over the citybuilding system, because you'd hit a point where you dont have the NPCs to do the things you want to do, not without going to a massive hassle. Not to mention, it'd mean completely shutting down the rescue missions, or drastically limiting how many of them you can do. Neither option really sounds like it goes along with any of the themes of the gameplay so far. As for reasons against replacing the re-roll system with distributable points, it really is just for the purposes of A: saving time, and B: being less annoying. I dont think it'd affect the gameplay much at all.... it'd just stop those obnoxious points of sitting there clicking the reroll button for 5 irritating minutes. |
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Rerolling is annoying I have to admit, but it serves as a good motivator for being careful rather than careless with your glyphbearers' lives. :) Also if you're able to basically just re-create the character you just lost except for a couple of random and only somewhat significant bonuses, there's almost no reason to even implement permadeath anymore. :( Plus, there's the fact that rolling a character with an unusual or weird stat combination can give you a chance to experiment in ways that might not have occurred to you before. *shrug* On the other hand, if players are going to re-roll constantly until they get a very specific desired set of traits, maybe having a game setting that allows you to distribute points would be good, for people who want to "opt in". When in doubt, if it doesn't actually break gameplay, just make it an option. :) You could also implement some other kind of system that allows players to distribute points as they wish for a moderate penalty: sacrifice one of the two random bonus traits, or sacrifice one of the internally distributed stat points, or something more clever than that that I can't think of. |
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I think in general it is better to come down hard on one side or another. If the game seems to want the player to do one thing, but gives them a roundabout (often annoying) way to go against that, it can create these types of situations. As Misery said above, there is a reason that RPGs don't use those type of systems anymore. The game should either let you choose the exact character you want, or it should *strongly* encourage the player to "deal with it". |
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Everyone has good points here and I'm really not not sure which is the right answer, really. I actually had Blahness's idea myself, that instead of rerolling you're given ONE random character and you'll have to "improve" your stats by finding more survivors to Glyph Transplant, thus encouraging both the act of rescuing survivors beyond what's typically needed and Glyph Transplant. Even that is better than reroll, if the survivors rescued always have different stats than you. We could even make it more specific *where* they are rescued, like a survivor found from X location will always have higher attack than a survivor found from Y. Overall, the original idea was to give CHOICES, *not* to make it easier. I think the reroll system is fine as it is now, if you want near-perfect stats you can sit there and hit 'reroll' for as long as you want. I just found it boring and thought there should be an *equally time-consuming choice*. So now this suggestion has two topics of discussion, "what should we do about the boringness of rerolling for those that like to get a specific build" and "should we replace reroll". I think this suggestion could have two types of discussion, but maybe those who just dislike 'reroll' altogether should make another suggestion to get rid of it (with Blahness's suggestion) instead of downvoting a suggestion to *change* something already in place. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Jul 21, 2012 4:33 am | Matthew Carras | New Issue | |
| Jul 21, 2012 7:45 am | BenMiff | Note Added: 0027015 | |
| Jul 22, 2012 5:31 am | Pyrrhic | Note Added: 0027037 | |
| Jul 22, 2012 7:13 am | Misery | Note Added: 0027038 | |
| Jul 22, 2012 10:09 am | Pyrrhic | Note Added: 0027040 | |
| Jul 23, 2012 11:43 am | tigersfan | Internal Weight | => Feature Suggestion |
| Jul 23, 2012 11:43 am | tigersfan | Status | new => considering |
| Jul 23, 2012 11:43 am | tigersfan | Description Updated | |
| Jul 23, 2012 2:31 pm | Blahness | Note Added: 0027066 | |
| Jul 23, 2012 3:11 pm | Mick | Note Added: 0027067 | |
| Jul 23, 2012 4:06 pm | Blahness | Note Edited: 0027066 | |
| Jul 23, 2012 6:44 pm | Misery | Note Added: 0027075 | |
| Jul 23, 2012 7:33 pm | doubtful | Note Added: 0027077 | |
| Jul 24, 2012 7:50 am | Pyrrhic | Relationship added | parent of 0009038 |
| Jul 24, 2012 9:45 am | Mick | Note Added: 0027093 | |
| Jul 24, 2012 10:01 am | Matthew Carras | Note Added: 0027096 | |
| Apr 14, 2014 9:28 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Category | Suggestion - General Idea => Suggestion - General |
| Apr 14, 2014 9:30 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Category | Suggestion - General => Suggestion |
