View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0000835 | AI War 1 / Classic | Suggestion - Balance Tweaks | Oct 23, 2010 10:11 am | Oct 25, 2010 11:37 am | |
| Reporter | Ozymandiaz | Assigned To | Chris_McElligottPark | ||
| Status | resolved | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Product Version | 3.904 | ||||
| Fixed in Version | 3.906 | ||||
| Summary | 0000835: Scouts Too Good | ||||
| Description | Currently my Mk II scouts was able to scout the entire 80 planet map easily. I did use a lot of waves, of course, but I never really had a need for Mk III or IV scouts at all. Not sure how one could make Mk III scouts more useful (the Mk IV is always good since it will live for ever, but its limited to one). Or maybe I was just lucky with my map. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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I got lvl 2 scouts out 16 hops on a vines map AI 7 and 7.3. Sixteen hops would probably cover most map styles completly I also fully exp a hub map with about 15 waves of lvl 2 scouts perhaps the V1 V2 scouts should not be completly immune to the guardians (guardians .01 against scout hulls perhaps) |
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Were your scouts being decloaked at all by the tachyon guardians? Or only one at a time due to cross-boosting? And were the ships around the wormholes even getting a chance to kill any of the scouts? |
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2xAI 7.6 They did get decloaked, and some dies along the way. I will add my save here, I guess that can make it easier to see. The scouts was outrunning a lot of the damage, as intended I guess. But they where never this effective after the removal of turrets etc :) |
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Are you playing without astro trains? Those used to really reduce the effectiveness, too, of the scouts. |
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I typicaly do not use astro trains - will test that vines map again w trains and reedit this note 12 hops w 1 AI w/ astro trains most losses occured on planets with an AI highway of ships on the same path as the scouts BTW -- Grav driller -- no scouts past that planet. A nerf to the scout speed would allow more time for the AI to engage. A micro player that guided his scouts around the edge should still be able to scout further than auto explore users. Normal ship caps for all tests |
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Ok. Hmm, vines should be mildly tougher on scouting, so that's not encouraging. We'll have to look at balance on that for sure. I'm thinking that guardians and guard posts need to only have a major penalty against scouts, rather than doing 0 damage to them. In my current test game, I'm playing against a counter-spy (by random chance), so that's making scouting feel tougher than usual, heh. ;) |
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It seems like the guards of the guard posts should be doing something against those scouts, I'm used to my scouts getting eaten pretty thoroughly when entering a mark IV system. There's also the changes to the ion cannon reload times; which cap size were you playing on? |
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largest :) |
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Hmm, that would be exactly the same as before then, ion-reload wise. It would actually be even easier on lower caps. Chris, perhaps there's something in this from recent increase to ship base speed, and the further increase to the human-player-multiplier (from 1.4x to 2.0x, iirc)? So the scouts just outrun everything, etc. Perhaps if tachyon guardians had a sort of long-reload multiple-secondary-shots limited-range railgun that did mild damage to scouts, so the hardier scouts can survive more such bursts and the more you have the more don't get hit, and taking out the tachyon guardian helps a lot, but there's a soft practical limit to how many you can "skip" past. |
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* The health of scouts is now 7x lower; they were overpowered, lately. |
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I can confirm that mk 1 get out 3-5 hops now and mk 2 get out 9-10 where they used to get out 16 on the vines test map AI type does have a major impact - grav driller stopes them cold and planets with teleport ships chew them up pretty good. Auto explore is good in the beginning but not as effective for deep scouting just because the auto splits the ship cap into smaller groups. I use auto to start then will try some focused or transport boosted scouting for interesting legs. Of note the Mk 3 seem to only get out 1 or sometines 2 hops more than the mk 2 on auto |
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Yea, auto is only for cases where you don't need efficiency, you just want them to scout the relatively easy stuff without micro'ing it. I like to think of it as the commander informing the scouts that if they're not out-system in 30 seconds, they're being used for target practice ;) |
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Awesome. And yeah, auto-explore isn't something I'd recommend very often. :) |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Oct 23, 2010 10:11 am | Ozymandiaz | New Issue | |
| Oct 23, 2010 10:40 am | Winter Born | Note Added: 0001951 | |
| Oct 23, 2010 10:42 am | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0001952 | |
| Oct 23, 2010 10:46 am | Ozymandiaz | File Added: TEST3.sav | |
| Oct 23, 2010 10:47 am | Ozymandiaz | Note Added: 0001953 | |
| Oct 23, 2010 11:25 am | Winter Born | Note Edited: 0001951 | |
| Oct 23, 2010 11:49 am | Winter Born | Note Edited: 0001951 | |
| Oct 23, 2010 12:07 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0001956 | |
| Oct 23, 2010 12:22 pm | Winter Born | Note Added: 0001958 | |
| Oct 23, 2010 12:25 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0001959 | |
| Oct 23, 2010 12:29 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0001962 | |
| Oct 23, 2010 12:29 pm | Ozymandiaz | Note Added: 0001964 | |
| Oct 23, 2010 12:36 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0001966 | |
| Oct 23, 2010 1:48 pm | Winter Born | Note Edited: 0001958 | |
| Oct 23, 2010 1:51 pm | Winter Born | Note Edited: 0001958 | |
| Oct 24, 2010 2:44 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0002014 | |
| Oct 24, 2010 2:44 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Status | new => resolved |
| Oct 24, 2010 2:44 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Fixed in Version | => 3.906 |
| Oct 24, 2010 2:44 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Resolution | open => fixed |
| Oct 24, 2010 2:44 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Assigned To | => Chris_McElligottPark |
| Oct 25, 2010 11:30 am | Winter Born | Note Added: 0002106 | |
| Oct 25, 2010 11:33 am | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0002107 | |
| Oct 25, 2010 11:37 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0002108 |
