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IDProjectCategoryLast Update
0000835AI War 1 / ClassicSuggestion - Balance TweaksOct 25, 2010 11:37 am
ReporterOzymandiaz Assigned ToChris_McElligottPark  
Severityminor 
Status resolvedResolutionfixed 
Product Version3.904 
Fixed in Version3.906 
Summary0000835: Scouts Too Good
DescriptionCurrently my Mk II scouts was able to scout the entire 80 planet map easily.

I did use a lot of waves, of course, but I never really had a need for Mk III or IV scouts at all.

Not sure how one could make Mk III scouts more useful (the Mk IV is always good since it will live for ever, but its limited to one). Or maybe I was just lucky with my map.
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Winter Born

Oct 23, 2010 10:40 am

reporter   ~0001951

Last edited: Oct 23, 2010 11:49 am

I got lvl 2 scouts out 16 hops on a vines map AI 7 and 7.3.
Sixteen hops would probably cover most map styles completly

I also fully exp a hub map with about 15 waves of lvl 2 scouts

perhaps the V1 V2 scouts should not be completly immune to the guardians (guardians .01 against scout hulls perhaps)

keith.lamothe

Oct 23, 2010 10:42 am

administrator   ~0001952

Were your scouts being decloaked at all by the tachyon guardians? Or only one at a time due to cross-boosting? And were the ships around the wormholes even getting a chance to kill any of the scouts?

Ozymandiaz

Oct 23, 2010 10:46 am

reporter  

TEST3.sav (474,553 bytes)

Ozymandiaz

Oct 23, 2010 10:47 am

reporter   ~0001953

2xAI 7.6

They did get decloaked, and some dies along the way. I will add my save here, I guess that can make it easier to see.

The scouts was outrunning a lot of the damage, as intended I guess. But they where never this effective after the removal of turrets etc :)

Chris_McElligottPark

Oct 23, 2010 12:07 pm

administrator   ~0001956

Are you playing without astro trains? Those used to really reduce the effectiveness, too, of the scouts.

Winter Born

Oct 23, 2010 12:22 pm

reporter   ~0001958

Last edited: Oct 23, 2010 1:51 pm

I typicaly do not use astro trains - will test that vines map again w trains and reedit this note

12 hops w 1 AI w/ astro trains
most losses occured on planets with an AI highway of ships on the same path as the scouts
 
BTW -- Grav driller -- no scouts past that planet.

A nerf to the scout speed would allow more time for the AI to engage. A micro player that guided his scouts around the edge should still be able to scout further than auto explore users.

Normal ship caps for all tests

Chris_McElligottPark

Oct 23, 2010 12:25 pm

administrator   ~0001959

Ok. Hmm, vines should be mildly tougher on scouting, so that's not encouraging. We'll have to look at balance on that for sure. I'm thinking that guardians and guard posts need to only have a major penalty against scouts, rather than doing 0 damage to them. In my current test game, I'm playing against a counter-spy (by random chance), so that's making scouting feel tougher than usual, heh. ;)

keith.lamothe

Oct 23, 2010 12:29 pm

administrator   ~0001962

It seems like the guards of the guard posts should be doing something against those scouts, I'm used to my scouts getting eaten pretty thoroughly when entering a mark IV system.

There's also the changes to the ion cannon reload times; which cap size were you playing on?

Ozymandiaz

Oct 23, 2010 12:29 pm

reporter   ~0001964

largest :)

keith.lamothe

Oct 23, 2010 12:36 pm

administrator   ~0001966

Hmm, that would be exactly the same as before then, ion-reload wise. It would actually be even easier on lower caps.

Chris, perhaps there's something in this from recent increase to ship base speed, and the further increase to the human-player-multiplier (from 1.4x to 2.0x, iirc)? So the scouts just outrun everything, etc.

Perhaps if tachyon guardians had a sort of long-reload multiple-secondary-shots limited-range railgun that did mild damage to scouts, so the hardier scouts can survive more such bursts and the more you have the more don't get hit, and taking out the tachyon guardian helps a lot, but there's a soft practical limit to how many you can "skip" past.

Chris_McElligottPark

Oct 24, 2010 2:44 am

administrator   ~0002014

* The health of scouts is now 7x lower; they were overpowered, lately.

Winter Born

Oct 25, 2010 11:30 am

reporter   ~0002106

I can confirm that mk 1 get out 3-5 hops now and mk 2 get out 9-10 where they used to get out 16 on the vines test map
AI type does have a major impact - grav driller stopes them cold and planets with teleport ships chew them up pretty good. Auto explore is good in the beginning but not as effective for deep scouting just because the auto splits the ship cap into smaller groups. I use auto to start then will try some focused or transport boosted scouting for interesting legs.

Of note the Mk 3 seem to only get out 1 or sometines 2 hops more than the mk 2 on auto

keith.lamothe

Oct 25, 2010 11:33 am

administrator   ~0002107

Yea, auto is only for cases where you don't need efficiency, you just want them to scout the relatively easy stuff without micro'ing it.

I like to think of it as the commander informing the scouts that if they're not out-system in 30 seconds, they're being used for target practice ;)

Chris_McElligottPark

Oct 25, 2010 11:37 am

administrator   ~0002108

Awesome. And yeah, auto-explore isn't something I'd recommend very often. :)

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
Oct 23, 2010 10:11 am Ozymandiaz New Issue
Oct 23, 2010 10:40 am Winter Born Note Added: 0001951
Oct 23, 2010 10:42 am keith.lamothe Note Added: 0001952
Oct 23, 2010 10:46 am Ozymandiaz File Added: TEST3.sav
Oct 23, 2010 10:47 am Ozymandiaz Note Added: 0001953
Oct 23, 2010 11:25 am Winter Born Note Edited: 0001951
Oct 23, 2010 11:49 am Winter Born Note Edited: 0001951
Oct 23, 2010 12:07 pm Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0001956
Oct 23, 2010 12:22 pm Winter Born Note Added: 0001958
Oct 23, 2010 12:25 pm Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0001959
Oct 23, 2010 12:29 pm keith.lamothe Note Added: 0001962
Oct 23, 2010 12:29 pm Ozymandiaz Note Added: 0001964
Oct 23, 2010 12:36 pm keith.lamothe Note Added: 0001966
Oct 23, 2010 1:48 pm Winter Born Note Edited: 0001958
Oct 23, 2010 1:51 pm Winter Born Note Edited: 0001958
Oct 24, 2010 2:44 am Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0002014
Oct 24, 2010 2:44 am Chris_McElligottPark Status new => resolved
Oct 24, 2010 2:44 am Chris_McElligottPark Fixed in Version => 3.906
Oct 24, 2010 2:44 am Chris_McElligottPark Resolution open => fixed
Oct 24, 2010 2:44 am Chris_McElligottPark Assigned To => Chris_McElligottPark
Oct 25, 2010 11:30 am Winter Born Note Added: 0002106
Oct 25, 2010 11:33 am keith.lamothe Note Added: 0002107
Oct 25, 2010 11:37 am Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0002108