0007545: Make Copper Ore+Iron Ore more rare/ granite + coral more common

ID	Project	Category		Date Submitted	Last Update

0007545	Valley 1	Suggestion - Balancing Issues		May 5, 2012 3:45 am	Jun 11, 2012 3:41 am

Reporter	GauHelldragon	Assigned To
Status	considering	Resolution	open
Product Version	1.009

Summary	0007545: Make Copper Ore+Iron Ore more rare/ granite + coral more common
Description	Copper and Iron are only used for a handleful of spells (mostly utility) and are not needed in any great quantity, however it seems that they are extremely common in caves. It would be nice if a lot of that copper and iron was instead granite. You need a lot of granite just to build the stuff you need, let alone the dozens of 'personality' buildings. I find that coral is also another greatly sought after resource, however it is kind of a pain to gather, since it seems to be slightly uncommon. Pretty much the ONLY reason anyone ever goes into the ocean is to get coral, so it would be nice if it was easy to get a lot of it, expecially considering the inhertent inconvienence of exploring ocean caves.
Tags	No tags attached.

Internal Weight	Feature Suggestion

Ipkins May 5, 2012 6:31 am reporter ~0023520	I agree. On continent 1, granite was never in short supply, partly because the basic buildings were already there, partly because it took a while to unlock iron ore and copper ore to "dilute" things. On continent 2 things are really different, I have more than enough iron and copper ore but I am always short in granite.

Quaix May 5, 2012 7:41 am reporter ~0023523 Last edited: May 5, 2012 7:42 am	Prior to unlocking iron/copper ore you just take it for granite... Puns aside, I think resources need to have their rarity roughly scaled to how many spells use them as crafting ingredients. And conversely, resource scarcity and ease of harvest should roughly indicate how much the ingredient is used for crafting. Cedar logs are almost free to harvest - i could run through an area with miasma whip and mow down all the trees without slowing down much. Current crafting costs for anything requiring cedar logs are inadequate. Like Gau says, Granite should be more abundant. Maybe 35/35/15/15% for granite/quartz/iron ore/copper ore probabilities. Also, make harvesting require some effort. Maybe 5-10 seconds of harvesting per rock. If it takes no effort to harvest them, I'm going to hit them with miasma whip and grab them even if I don't think I'll need them. But if I have to sit there for 10 seconds while harvesting each one, I'll think twice whether I really need it that badly. Same for trees.

Izumi5 May 5, 2012 9:33 am reporter ~0023528	I agree on it, granite is indeed scarce, compared to iron and copper which has fewer uses and should be more rare.

eric2903 May 6, 2012 4:56 am reporter ~0023614	I especially agree with the coral, it seems that since I enjoy energy orb I'm forced to spend upwards of an hour looking for the necessary coral to get it up to level 5.

Platypus May 6, 2012 8:44 pm reporter ~0023651	Perhaps certain personality buildings could actually use iron and copper ore / ingots. Iron ingots and iron ore are incredibly common and only used for a few different spells and I think it would make a lot of sense for the more modern personality structures to require metal as opposed to wood and granite skyscrapers.

Aphantas May 6, 2012 11:45 pm reporter ~0023662	Spending 5 seconds to harvest a rock, no thank you. I think that would kill the flow of the game and make it unbearably tedious to harvest resources. Materials do need to be balanced better though.

Barty May 9, 2012 7:05 am reporter ~0023839	I agree with the granite needing to be a bit more common to find since you do need a bit of it to build all of the structures in the settlement. As for coral, I couldn't agree more. I have been having a hard time finding the quantities of coral I have wanted thus far. Maybe ocean shallows should have large supplies of coral in their gem veins? Although coral obviously isn't a gem and off the top of my head, I can't remember what type of gem is normally in the ocean shallows.

BenMiff May 23, 2012 6:30 pm reporter ~0024752	I do like the idea of using iron / copper more, espescially in personality structures; it'd add another level of specialisation to personality structures if their build costs varied by structure. Maybe throw in quartz for more "crystalline" buildings. Altering frequencies would also be good, though since you generally need granite more at earlier tiers than later on, it might be worth slowly reverting to the earlier frequency distribution as you get deeper and deeper into a cavern.

RetroNutcase Jun 1, 2012 3:54 am reporter ~0025350 Last edited: Jun 1, 2012 3:55 am	There definitely needs to be some kind of rebalance on Granite. You need so much of it, but get so little compared to Iron/Copper, which is always in abundance. Same with Cedar Logs. I've never had a shortage of them. Either make Granite more common, or make Iron/Copper building materials as well as crafting (If possible). I'm sitting on 10+ structures I can't build right now because I'm shy on granite for all of them. Cedar logs? ...Sitting on a stockpile of...500 or so. 9.9

lavacamorada Jun 3, 2012 3:12 am reporter ~0025425	The problem with using the same resources for building and crafting: Player A harvests 5 iron ore. Players A and B each see 5 iron ore in the stockpile. Player B crafts a spellgem that requires 2 iron ore. Player A sees 5 iron ore in the stockpile, and player B sees 3. Player A tries to construct a building that requires 5 iron ore. One of the following happens: 1) The building is constructed, and Player B sees -2 iron ore in the stockpile, or 2) Player A can't construct the building, even though he/she sees the resources in the stockpile to construct it. Both of these are bad. That said, it wouldn't be too hard to turn copper and iron ore into construction materials, and make spellgems that used them use copper and iron ingots (or another material) instead. Existing stockpiles of copper and iron ore would have to be converted into ingots to prevent the above issue from occurring, but this would only be a one-time thing.

TracerFox Jun 3, 2012 3:26 am reporter ~0025428	I think it would make more sense to turn the ingots of those two metals into the building material, and perhaps introduce two new spell materials to fill the roles they currently serve. Of course the same result can be had by introducing new building materials, or by increasing the appearance of granite in both surface and cavern chunks. Perhaps granite (or any new building materials) might be introduced into the Stash reward seeds?

LayZboy Jun 4, 2012 8:03 am reporter ~0025452	The best way I find to get coral is to just run along ocean tiles and collect whatever ones spawn on the ocean floor.

darke Jun 10, 2012 11:12 pm reporter ~0025754	Just did that in a game and running through 8 ocean tiles I picked up 3 coral, 5-6 each of quartz and granite, and 10+ iron ore (I didn't really pay attention past that other then feel annoyed at how much I was getting in comparison to the dearth of coral). Seems like there's something a little strange with the seeding on this one.

NyQuil Jun 11, 2012 3:41 am reporter ~0025755	I never seem to have enough coral, anything to increase their seeding, or a multiplier would be welcome. A transmute spell or guardian power could solve some of these problems. Some number of resource A creates a much small amount of resource B, subject to whatever the unlock gods deem acceptable.

Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
May 5, 2012 3:45 am	GauHelldragon	New Issue
May 5, 2012 6:31 am	Ipkins	Note Added: 0023520
May 5, 2012 7:41 am	Quaix	Note Added: 0023523
May 5, 2012 7:41 am	Quaix	Note Edited: 0023523
May 5, 2012 7:42 am	Quaix	Note Edited: 0023523
May 5, 2012 7:42 am	Quaix	Note Edited: 0023523
May 5, 2012 7:42 am	Quaix	Note Edited: 0023523
May 5, 2012 9:33 am	Izumi5	Note Added: 0023528
May 5, 2012 11:34 pm	tigersfan	Internal Weight	=> Feature Suggestion
May 5, 2012 11:34 pm	tigersfan	Status	new => considering
May 6, 2012 4:56 am	eric2903	Note Added: 0023614
May 6, 2012 8:44 pm	Platypus	Note Added: 0023651
May 6, 2012 11:45 pm	Aphantas	Note Added: 0023662
May 9, 2012 7:05 am	Barty	Note Added: 0023839
May 23, 2012 4:46 pm	GauHelldragon	Relationship added	related to 0008063
May 23, 2012 6:30 pm	BenMiff	Note Added: 0024752
Jun 1, 2012 3:54 am	RetroNutcase	Note Added: 0025350
Jun 1, 2012 3:55 am	RetroNutcase	Note Edited: 0025350
Jun 3, 2012 3:12 am	lavacamorada	Note Added: 0025425
Jun 3, 2012 3:26 am	TracerFox	Note Added: 0025428
Jun 4, 2012 8:03 am	LayZboy	Note Added: 0025452
Jun 10, 2012 11:12 pm	darke	Note Added: 0025754
Jun 11, 2012 3:41 am	NyQuil	Note Added: 0025755

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