View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0007230 | Valley 1 | Gameplay Idea | Apr 24, 2012 2:17 am | Jul 14, 2012 5:27 pm | |
| Reporter | Eagleheart | Assigned To | |||
| Status | considering | Resolution | open | ||
| Product Version | 0.971 (RC2) | ||||
| Summary | 0007230: Move On Right Click | ||||
| Description | It would be tremendously helpful if you could set it so that right clicking moved your character in the direction you were pointing. I don't have three hands so I can't WASD, hold the mouse, and press spell hotkeys all the same time unfortunately. This makes it nearly impossible to even use any spells other than the two main ones set while in battle...which significantly affects the game. I hate trying to switch spells or hit the pause key to do so while taking hits, never mind the annoyance of having to keep doing so in the first place. I would greatly appreciate this feature! | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
| Internal Weight | Feature Suggestion | ||||
|
|
If this was altered to allow for a custom binding to 'move towards mouse cursor' I'd be all for it. As it stands... I'm going to have to say I really dislike this idea. Three reasons: 1) Depending on the area I'm dropping light-balls with Rt-Click instead of platforms (which I ALSO keep on Rt-Click most of the time) so I don't want to be wandering off small ledges and the like because I'm trying to use my alt-spell. In either case, I don't want to go awandering because I'm using my utility spell. 2) Using the rollerwheel I can access the majority of my main-bar spells pretty quickly. Using the Left side shift/ctrl/alt will give me access to secondary utility spells just as nicely with no hand movement. 3) When I'm dual-spelling (due to enemy weaknesses/resistances) and I'm trying to deal with multiple enemy spawns, I don't want to go wandering at the enemy I'm probably jumping away from while using my alt-spell. |
|
|
We'd definitely never make it just automatically be a right-click thing. However, as a custom binding that is something that we could look at doing. |
|
|
Eagleheart -- it sounds like you, like me (and I believe the average user of this game) need to use the keyboard only mode. You can move with WASD and fire spells with the numpad, or if you have a laptop (as I do) you can move with the arrow keys and fire spells with QWEASDZXC (the normal WASD keys). This setup is completely natural and works beautifully. You might think you're losing something by not having the mouse to aim with, but you really aren't. It actually makes the game a lot more fun IMO since you position yourself and aim your shots. Give it a try for about 20 minutes and see if you want to go back. Speaking of which, Chris, I don't think my keyboard configuration (meant for a laptop) has been put into the game yet. I really think it'll boost laptop owners' enjoyment of the game. |
|
|
Bluddy: thanks for the reminder on the keyboard config you set up. That got lost in the shuffle right before 1.0, but I sent Keith a note to look into yours and any other keybind options from that thread that we overlooked. I also agree that it sounds like Eaglehart might do better with just a keyboard rather than a keyboard and mouse -- that suspicion strikes me very strongly. That said, I still disagree that the keyboard-only option should be the default. After watching 300+ players at PAX East, and having all these hundreds of players who commented on the game during beta, that was not something I heard except in a tiny minority of cases. Which is why we support multiple modes, and went out of our way to make it easy to switch between said modes (and obvious that said modes even exist). But the default that most people were naturally picking up and "just playing" with seems to be the keyboard and mouse. Diversity is good, though! Hence the options and configurability, etc. |
|
|
Sorry -- I didn't mean to imply there that the keyboard config should be default. I'm plenty happy with the way you set up the control choices. Perhaps a tip somewhere that 'If you're finding the game difficult to control, try a keyboard only configuration' would be helpful. I do think though that it should be the default for a laptop config with no external mouse. Keyboard movement + access to the number row + touchpad = minimal control. I don't know how you can easily communicate that to players though. |
|
|
I can't actually detect anything about the mouse input type (mouse or touchpad), to my knowledge. My hope was that the constant reinforcement of the control mode at the top of the escape menu and in the create new world menu, and on the main menu and escape menu in the actual dropdown, would prompt folks to eventually take a look. Personally I prefer to use the touchpad and keyboard on my laptop, though; while I did grow up playing keyboard-only games like Demon Stalkers as a kid, long before there were even mice attached to the computers we owned, I find the keyboard-only controls here to be really inferior-feeling compared to the keyboard+mouse. That's just personal preference, but I just can't make it do what I want. I like the gamepad or the keyboard+mouse; but I know that Keith, for instance, is keyboard-only all the way and can't really control it with the other options. So even on the core dev team we have diversity. Interestingly, I was so keyboard-bound for years that I used to play Descent, Quake, Quake II, Doom, etc, all keyboard-only. With Wolfenstein 3D I think that might have been the only option, and I got used to that. I couldn't understand how people were doing the incredible strafing that they were doing in those games in multiplayer when that started becoming a thing; holding alt and then the arrow keys was incredibly awkward. So that's when I moved to keyboard + mouse, which felt fiddly and was something I really hated at first, and then I got used to it and never really looked back. I was suddenly _awesome_ at Quake II and Unreal Tournament and such. ;) Anyway, all that to say that even from my own personal experience I can understand the discomfort that some have with keyboard + mouse. But for all these people who play PC FPS games, or Terraria, or Minecraft, that's just going to be what comes naturally. That's most PC gamers, but certainly not remotely all. Wow that was way longer than was needed. Cheers. ;) |
|
|
I'm totally cool with keyboard and mouse in general. My experience is similar to yours history-wise, and I'm totally cool with FPSs. The thing that separates AVWW from FPSs is that you want to be able to fire spells at will, which requires constant access to the number keys. This is something you don't really do in an FPS -- you only switch weapons occasionally, or you just use the mousewheel (because you need only occasional switching). Also, in an FPS you don't have to worry as much about your exact position and dodging bullets -- you're generally either hit or you're not hit, in which case you run towards cover or towards the enemy. These 2 factors make keyboard + mouse controls harder in AVWW than in an FPS, and on a touchpad you don't even have the mouse-wheel option, so you have to hit the number keys, which requires moving your left hand constantly, and then your left hand hits your right hand on the touchpad... it just doesn't work out well from my experience. |
|
|
Fair enough. In my case I will admit I have a 5-button mouse so that helps immensely. But I've played plenty even on your average 3-button mouse (2 buttons plus click mouse wheel), and I find that for most situations I really only need two spells plus wooden platforms. Occasionally if I'm outside I switch from platforms to crates, but that is a shortlived thing. And I switch out which are my two spells as I change areas, of course; but not terribly more frequently than that. And I should say those are my two _combat_ spells. Other things like summons, logistical spells, etc, I just use off my number row because they either don't require aiming, don't get used during combat, or both. But again, to each their own. I just figured I'd at least explain how I was managing it. |
|
|
OK so you're playing it more like an FPS where you have your main weapon and your alternate. When I first started with the game, I came at it with an ARPG mentality -- the skill bar happens to also resemble that of an ARPG. In an ARPG, you have all the number keys at your disposal since you don't have to manage much more than clicking on your destination. And in fact, that's how I like to play: I like to constantly use a barrage of spells, from fireball and lightning to throw rock. I think the interface also encourages you to use more than 2 spells *because* they're all visible at once. The cooldown system also encourages variation of spells I think. It's still cooling down similar spells more than dissimilar ones, right? |
|
|
Yep, that's all accurate in terms of how I play it. And now I see more how you play it. For me, it's about mental bandwidth anyhow: I place my own position as my primary focal point of how I play. I need to move around quickly and get into a good firing angle. Then fire off one shot, generally speaking, and hit the target in a weakspot. By then I'm having to dodge or flee to avoid taking damage, and thus the cooldowns are largely irrelevant if they are 1s or less (unless I'm firing backwards at whatever is chasing me, like dragon fire). Then I reposition, fire again, and repeat. My style of play generally relies on not getting hit but doing a lot of damage -- sort of a glass cannon approach, but not completely. So again more towards an FPS. My characters also die a lot from when I inevitably make a slip, so I don't bother with upgrade stones past a certain minimum. Sometimes I don't bother with them at all, honestly, and just focus on enchants and the tier of my two best spells. But that kind of varies. Usually I take at least 1 upgrade to health. I've never played ARPGs particularly, and I've never played any MMO, so I can't comment on the influences there. Probably the closest I've ever come to those was Terraria and I guess Neverwinter Nights (which I guess is sort of an ARPG, but it's not very action-y; I'm not sure how to class that one). |
|
|
I only meant for this to be an option, of course, not the default. My wording was a bit strange there, but by 'you could set it' I meant the player. Anyway, the reason I thought of this is indeed from playing MMORPGs a lot, in particular WoW. Back when I played that I did move with right click and you have the same spell bar setup, but I could just use the numbers at the top to cast all of them at will without having to set primary or secondary spells. It just seemed a much easier type of setup. Granted, you didn't have to aim WoW spells, so it would be slightly different, of course. I don't see why there would be any problems though. I'll give keyboard only mode a try. |
|
|
So the way I play I really like attacking with multiple shot types, and because you can (and do) miss a lot with the keyboard (and gamepad as well), the cooldown time is critical, so it reinforces the need to be able to reach many spells immediately. The result is that you have to both dodge shots (which is usually fairly easy) and line up your shots simultaneously. In fact, one of the things I like about keyboard mode is that you can't hit a weak spot from any position. Sometimes you have to take whatever shot you can get. It also means that when you do line up a shot, you need to attack with as much as you can, so I try to carry out a string of attacks before I have to dodge and lose my mental 'target lock'. Eagleheart: let me know what you think of keyboard mode. It's really a lot like classic Metroid or other platforming games, except those games had few buttons so you couldn't have as many spells accessible at once. |
|
|
I would really like to be able to reassign keys as I saw fit. Something like: After the current ways you can choose how to control the game, another option that says 'Custom...', which lets you set whatever keys you like. I have a mac laptop with a separate mac mouse - so I can right-click and left-click, but I can't do both at once (and I'm not sure if I can middle-click). Like trying out a bunch of different chairs to see which fit you best (maybe even changing between them when you got tired of one), I'd like to try a certain set of custom controls, play with a bit, and then maybe change it if I don't like it. Preferably, I could also save a couple of custom control sets, to quickly switch between them in the future...but if that's too much trouble, I could manage for the time being without that specific perk. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Apr 24, 2012 2:17 am | Eagleheart | New Issue | |
| Apr 24, 2012 2:17 am | Eagleheart | Category | Suggestion - General Idea => Suggestion - Gameplay |
| Apr 24, 2012 6:32 am | GUDare | Note Added: 0022636 | |
| Apr 24, 2012 8:22 am | tigersfan | Internal Weight | => Feature Suggestion |
| Apr 24, 2012 8:22 am | tigersfan | Status | new => considering |
| Apr 24, 2012 9:00 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0022641 | |
| Apr 24, 2012 11:11 am | Bluddy | Note Added: 0022652 | |
| Apr 24, 2012 11:28 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0022653 | |
| Apr 24, 2012 11:40 am | Bluddy | Note Added: 0022654 | |
| Apr 24, 2012 11:52 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0022655 | |
| Apr 24, 2012 12:03 pm | Bluddy | Note Added: 0022658 | |
| Apr 24, 2012 12:13 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0022659 | |
| Apr 24, 2012 12:19 pm | Bluddy | Note Added: 0022662 | |
| Apr 24, 2012 12:24 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0022663 | |
| Apr 24, 2012 2:55 pm | Eagleheart | Note Added: 0022668 | |
| Apr 24, 2012 4:09 pm | Bluddy | Note Added: 0022674 | |
| Jul 14, 2012 5:27 pm | Pyrrhic | Note Added: 0026750 | |
| Apr 14, 2014 9:30 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Category | Suggestion - Gameplay => Gameplay Idea |
