View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0007146 | Valley 1 | Suggestion - UI Ideas | Apr 18, 2012 10:35 am | Apr 19, 2012 4:38 pm | |
| Reporter | Bluddy | Assigned To | Chris_McElligottPark | ||
| Severity | minor | ||||
| Status | resolved | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Product Version | 0.931 | ||||
| Fixed in Version | 0.932 | ||||
| Summary | 0007146: Simplify control choices | ||||
| Description | IMO control choices are still too complicated. There should be exclusive choices (that you can't activate at the same time), one for keyboard & mouse and one for gamepad: In an area called Control Options: { In an area called Keyboard & mouse setup: { - Mouse aiming (tooltip: You move around with the keyboard and fire with the mouse. Allows firing at any angle, but some players find this mode more difficult to handle, especially if they don't have a multi-button mouse or game on a laptop.) - Pure Keyboard (tooltip: Plays like a classic platformer such as Super Metroid. You can only shoot up, down, left, right and diagonally, but some users find this mode much easier to handle, especially if they don't have a multi-button mouse or game on a laptop.) - Keyboard with auto-targeting (tooltip: You move with the keyboard and the game targets for you with a keypress. This is another mode that's easier to use if you don't have a multi-button mouse. Allows firing at any angle, but a little less flexible in terms of targeting.) } In an area called Gamepad options: { - Directional. (tooltip: Use one stick to both move and aim, similar to classic platformers such as Super Metroid. Allows firing only up, down, left, right and diagonally.) - Twin-stick controls (tooltip: Use one stick to move and one to aim. Allows firing in any direction, but reduces the number of buttons available for firing spells.) } } Loading a keyboard configuration should automatically select the keyboard&mouse mode it was made for. Otherwise, people will load a configuration and think it sucks because it wasn't made for the mode they're using. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
| Internal Weight | For New Player Experience | ||||
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That's not precisely what we have already planned to do, but it's pretty decently close. Great minds think alike. ;) |
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I'd also suggest that the keyboard controls be the default, with mouse based controls being optional. A new player will handle the keyboard controls much better than the mouse ones, and many players don't have a multi-button mouse. |
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Actually, our experience with PAX was that the keyboard + mouse option was by far what most people just intuitively picked up. It was about 5% or less who seemed to want keyboard-only or gamepad. With a lot of players we didn't even have to explain the controls, they just sat down and started playing. |
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I think it is what people pick up because they're used to it from shooters, ARPGs and RTSs. Also, keyboard only seems initially like the inferior choice because you're 'giving up' the mouse and you can only shoot in 45 degree increments. But I think this psychology ultimately ends up diminishing people's experience, because there's too much going on unless you have a multi-button mouse (and maybe even then for most people. I'm not sure about that -- I don't have a multi-button mouse). You don't notice it right away, but eventually you feel like the combat isn't solid or like there's something off. So you can be ok with the default controls, but you don't get to the stage of being extremely proficient with them. Whereas with keyboard only controls, you pick them up and you soon become amazing at manipulating them -- they become a natural extension of your will. However, because they seem 'inferior', very few people will actively choose them (even if you point out that they could make the game more enjoyable). And tab-targeting feels like the game is helping you out, which is why, psychologically, I can't play with it on (and I think many other people also can't). Another advantage of keyboard only is that it feels both more skill-based and 'realistic' because: 1. The *limitation* of 45 degree angles makes you think more about your positioning. You can't just hit the enemies wherever they are. 2. You have to line up your shots, as opposed to clicking on your enemies' positions. Clicking on your enemies is good for RTS/ARPG games where your avatar is 'ordered' to go and fight said enemies. But it doesn't feel as skillful when you can just click on the bad guys and (usually) hit them wherever they are. It's less satisfying IMO. 3. You can't shoot out of your back or butt with the keyboard as you can with the mouse. You shoot ahead of yourself, which feels more consistent with how this should be. |
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It's fair enough, and everyone has their own expectations. But I'm not going to try to sell people on a control model they think is inferior. My goal is just to provide options, and then provide the default options as the thing that most people will want most. So, for example the default gamepad controls will be for the 360 controller despite the fact that I vastly prefer the Logitech Rumblepad II. |
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I guess we'll continue to disagree on this point :) I happen to think the default control mode is a 'psychological trap' for most users, and is better as an option. It's similar to the way mice and mouselook have really made space shooters (a la Wing Commander) difficult to balance. Joysticks give a much better feel for piloting a vessel, and can maintain a constant turn rate. Mice, however, are much much more accurate than joysticks. But few people have real joysticks nowadays, and everyone has a mouse of some sort, so you have to allow mouse control. But once you allow mouse control, joysticks can't compete in accuracy, so you either limit mouse control or joystick users feel they have to switch to mice to compete. The feel of the game then becomes that of an FPS where you can look in all directions rather than of being in a spaceship, and soon WASD controls are also added to the game as well. |
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Fair enough -- last space shooter I played heavily was Freespace 2. I was a mouse player for the most part there, since I haven't had a proper joystick since the mid-90s. But anyhow, yeah, count me in the group that prefers mouse and keyboard anyhow. And even more to the point, it's impossible to play this game without touching the mouse at least some of the time (menus, inventory, etc), whether you use a gamepad or the keyboard for general movement around. Encouraging people to not use the mouse for general gameplay also means they'll start griping at us for full keyboard/gamepad support on those menu items, and that's a real pain and tends to not work very well. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Apr 18, 2012 10:35 am | Bluddy | New Issue | |
| Apr 18, 2012 10:43 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0022282 | |
| Apr 18, 2012 11:25 am | tigersfan | Internal Weight | => For New Player Experience |
| Apr 18, 2012 11:25 am | tigersfan | Assigned To | => Chris_McElligottPark |
| Apr 18, 2012 11:25 am | tigersfan | Status | new => assigned |
| Apr 18, 2012 11:49 am | Bluddy | Note Added: 0022286 | |
| Apr 18, 2012 12:00 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0022287 | |
| Apr 18, 2012 12:53 pm | Bluddy | Note Added: 0022298 | |
| Apr 18, 2012 1:15 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0022303 | |
| Apr 18, 2012 1:35 pm | Bluddy | Note Added: 0022309 | |
| Apr 18, 2012 1:42 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0022310 | |
| Apr 19, 2012 4:38 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Status | assigned => resolved |
| Apr 19, 2012 4:38 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Fixed in Version | => 0.932 |
| Apr 19, 2012 4:38 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Resolution | open => fixed |
