View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0005007 | Valley 1 | Gameplay Idea | Oct 25, 2011 10:33 am | Oct 27, 2011 8:53 am | |
| Reporter | LCinn | Assigned To | Chris_McElligottPark | ||
| Status | closed | Resolution | won't fix | ||
| Product Version | 0.530 | ||||
| Summary | 0005007: Merge scrolls and potions (again?) | ||||
| Description | I'm not sure about the history of potions/scrolls, but the split feels kind of weird and unnecessary. Why not just make us brew potions with gem dust? Pretty much every scroll ability is easily re-imagined as a potion, and it'd clear up some clutter in our inventory and remove the feeling of arbitrariness that the current split gives. The only reason I can think of for this split is to make the Guardian Stones give us free potions while we still have some scrolls in reserve. But adding duplicate items that do the same just for this seems kind of unnecessary. I guess if you really want to give us free potions, you could keep track of them internally, but it seems a bit clunky to expose players to this. But I might be missing something! | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
| Internal Weight | Discussion Only | ||||
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These were explicitly made separate in the case of warp scrolls so that players could stash up on warp scrolls without having the gifting of the ilari be impacted (losing out on the "freebies"). And as for health/MP potions, they are separate more for thematic reasons. |
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Yeah, I found it so odd, it had to be a conscious design decision :D This does bring me to something sort of a problem with the idea tracker though. I understand you want to mark this as `working as intended, not going to fix'. But it's unfortunate that this also disables voting. There are things that make perfect sense to you, the game designer, that might make players go like `huh?', because you know the problem they were intended to solve, but the players don't. Obviously, this shouldn't happen, because that `huh' kicks the player right out of the game, forcing him/her to see the game as a machine that has to work, instead of an immersive, fun experience. And aren't these issues *exactly* the kind of thing that you want voting tallies for? I might just be one loon that insist `there is a smudge right there! I can see it! Polish it! Polish iiiiiit!' until the paint wears away (`it moves when I move my eye!'), but when 90% of the players feels this way, they might be onto something you as a designer are incapable of seeing, precisely because you designed it. You do not encounter things without knowing their reason for existence. Anyway, it's something to consider, perhaps. I ran into an issue that gave me a similar impression earlier on, with the emit light scrolls. |
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It's interesting that you find this so odd, given that I can think of dozens of games that use a similar mechanic with multiple types of equivalent healing that you're able to get from similar sources. It's pretty common with RPGs, which is why I think that folks in general have not raised this as an issue. When it comes to an issue that we're still looking for feedback on because we're unsure, we mark it as feedback so that folks can vote if they wish. However, this issue is marked as closed because there's no solid basis for needing a change here. Your inventory is massive so the extra space requirements are next to nil; you don't need healing/MP-restore items on your quick bar because of the auto-use of them and because of the "use best" option, and so on. That makes this an aesthetic question rather than a functional one, and when it comes to those sorts of things its always a matter of taste and judgement calls. I've considered what you're saying, and I don't happen to agree on this one, and so the issue is pretty well closed because I don't want to spend lots of time trying to debate and defend every aesthetic decision that someone doesn't agree with. There's just too many different people with too many different opinions, and there are more important things that we all tend to agree need to be done, especially at this point. I hope that makes sense. |
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It might stop being an issue (even for me :) ) when we're further into the beta, with more different items filling up the inventory early on. Right now the usables inventory initially gives the impression of `right, this bar holds my spells, my scrolls, and my potions which apparently do the same as the scrolls', which feels like there being two `buttons' for the same thing. And yes, you're completely right that this is an aesthetic question. The same is sort of true for the emit light issue too, actually. Too bad for me we apparently just have different tastes on some issues! |
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I have to admit that I always considered this design decision as weird as well, but didn't question it yet since I expected that scrolls and potions would be differentiated later. As is, it makes sense for warp potions, but MP/HP potions and scrolls of the same tier are literally identical in effect. RPGs tend to have various heals or other restoratives, but they do not tend to be point identical. As is, it's a little inventory-cluttery. |
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Just to note, I am on the fence on differentiating the two sets of healing items, but the issue is not so much that they are two things that do the same thing, but rather those two things are identical in effect in every way. |
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Cheers folks -- one thing I should note is that you really have no reason to ever even craft the healing/mana scrolls. Possibly right at the start, or if you happen to run out without noticing, but in general... why do you even have the scroll versions in your inventory? That's what I should have started with. The scroll versions of the potions (including the warp ones to some extent) are meant as a safety valve that you can use in really rare circumstances if you feel like it, or if you just don't feel like scavenging a little more before going back to some big challenge you're currently focused on. But given the abundance of potions, there's really not a need to be crafting the scroll versions as well. To answer my own question, I suspect that the main reason folks are crafting the scroll versions is that they have all this dust that makes these scrolls, and nothing else to spend that dust on that is of any interest! That won't always be the case. Later, when you've got the choice between something you can easily scavenge, and something more awesome that you can't get any other way, I like to think that most folks will stop using the scroll versions of these except when they really need them. And that's why these are there, and identical -- as an overflow valve if you simply can't get any more potions or just don't feel like it. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Oct 25, 2011 10:33 am | LCinn | New Issue | |
| Oct 25, 2011 1:36 pm | tigersfan | Internal Weight | => Discussion Only |
| Oct 25, 2011 1:36 pm | tigersfan | Status | new => feedback |
| Oct 25, 2011 2:27 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0017126 | |
| Oct 25, 2011 2:27 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Status | feedback => closed |
| Oct 25, 2011 2:27 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Assigned To | => Chris_McElligottPark |
| Oct 25, 2011 2:27 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Resolution | open => won't fix |
| Oct 26, 2011 1:19 am | LCinn | Note Added: 0017135 | |
| Oct 26, 2011 8:43 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0017144 | |
| Oct 27, 2011 3:45 am | LCinn | Note Added: 0017217 | |
| Oct 27, 2011 7:12 am | Yuugi | Note Added: 0017221 | |
| Oct 27, 2011 7:36 am | TechSY730 | Note Added: 0017223 | |
| Oct 27, 2011 8:53 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0017233 | |
| Oct 27, 2011 8:53 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Edited: 0017233 | |
| Apr 14, 2014 9:30 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Category | Suggestion - Gameplay => Gameplay Idea |
