View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0002783 | AI War 1 / Classic | Suggestion - Game Mechanics | Feb 10, 2011 11:29 am | Oct 1, 2012 2:01 pm | |
| Reporter | Oralordos | Assigned To | keith.lamothe | ||
| Status | resolved | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Fixed in Version | 5.088 | ||||
| Summary | 0002783: Spire Shard seeding | ||||
| Description | This was first suggested here: http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,8178.msg71776.html#msg71776 In short, allow the shards to spawn in human territory. This should allow for a choice between a ton AIP capturing every planet the shards [i]might[/i] spawn on, or trying to bring it back from enemy territory where you won't have static defenses to help against the AI to bring it back to your territory. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
| Internal Weight | Feature Suggestion | ||||
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Not to mention making it that the shard spawn location is not tied to your locations. The current seeding logic makes no sense from an in universe perspective. |
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Aww, this was my idea originally! :( Now I'll never get the credit. :P |
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I placed a link to the original post in there. So you should get the credit. All I did was repost it here for the devs. |
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I'm teasing. |
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Might make it too easy on some map layouts. |
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@KDR: We're aware, and Keith has already stated that "balance on a snake map might not be the best measure" or similar. |
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I've had lucky layouts from the Basic pattern that gave me a pocket of the galaxy with a small number of chokepoints to defend, if the shards can spawn in human space and are based on the distance to the home command then it's quite feasible for the shard to appear in deeply secure territory. Of course on something like a grid map you'd get attacked from all sides instead. |
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I'm leaving my support mark here. Continuous flying for the thing with predictable "always a bit farther than last time" was kind of grindy and it gets boring after first 2;) |
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I'm posting support because it's a little unfair to players who naturally take more territory before shard getting that they then in turn get further penalized by shards being always far away. But in the end it's not gamebreaking either way, just kind of frustrating. |
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Optimally, I think the LotS campaign can be done alongside the main game, with it occasionally requiring your full attention. This is done with the exo-waves and chase scenes. However, by always seeding outside enemy space, you discourage taking planets early, which seems counter productive. Since to take full advantage of the spire you will need to capture a bunch of planets already, it seems odd to always have it in enemy space rather then be more neutral. Right now, to have a chance of not killing your AIP and yet have enough planets for the spire, you need to pretty much investigate as much as you can then start capturing planets, which makes the story take longer and feel more "grindy". There is a penalty for taking planets early in the form of the story ALWAYS requiring more work. For me, it becomes "why should I bother taking that ARS 3 planets away? If I capture it, I ensure the shard won't spawn there. No, I will investigate first and make the fight much harder then it would be if I did it later, but darn it I don't want to neuter two whole sets of planets if I can avoid it." If the system would change, my whole thought process would change to "Shard spawning is truely random, so I'll pursue the campaign when I want to, rather then building my game around it. Let's get the ARS." |
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Maybe make it a fixed distance from your homeworld instead of your borders? Then taking lots of planets early isn't penalized, and the length of the 'chase' is more predictable. Also bypasses the problem of completely random placement spawning a shard somewhere you can't get to (e.g. on the other side of the first AI homeworld on a snake map). |
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if im not mistaken the first shard will spawn in human territory if you are behind mk4 worlds.. but past that, its always 2 jumps away (and 3 jumps later) iirc. i mean, chances are pretty good once you have the spire stuff rolling out you wont have much trouble annexing worlds for *fun*... |
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Just as a sidenote - I played a multiplayer game (2 human) and we each took 8 worlds (so all available worlds were taken between us) on a 100 planet snake map. The first [b]4[/b] shards all spawned on my front-most homeworld. We were not behind mk4 worlds (or even mk3), so we had a very easy frist-half game :) |
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I would strong support a change which did not discourage natural expansion. If the shard was allowed to spawn inside allied territory, I think the strike forces which spawn attempting to destroy it should also be allowed to spawn inside friendly territory. Limiting expansion currently means most worlds bordering the shards spawn location would be enemy worlds. If the strike forces were allowed to spawn in adjacent player controlled or neutral worlds that were not on a direct path to the nearest homeworld that should have a similar effect. The backdoor hacker AI type already has the exogalactic wormhole, why not allow temporary versions of this type of spawn location to be used in the center of adjacent planets. Alternatively the counter attack warp post logic could be used on adjacent planets and have the strike force approach from one of the far corners. By continuing to have the waves spawn in this manner as the shard moves, it would severely limit the amount of defenses that could be setup specifically to counter the waves which will spawn, and would prevent the waves from being required to travel through 3 or 4 player controlled systems before reaching the shard. Since the shard is pulled out of subspace, why not have the AI respond in a similar manner. |
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Could set a hard cap on the distance the AI follows the shard. 2/3/3/4/5 systems. This way if the shard spawns 15 systems away because you were expanding normally you don't have to defend it for such a long distance. I agree that the current spawn mechanic puts too much of an emphasis on never expanding in a certain direction just so that the shard always spawns in an obscure corner that is easily defended rather than ontop of a core world. |
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For 5.088: * Answering another longstanding top-of-the-mantis-voting request: the shard seeding in Fallen Spire now only cares about how far from the human homeworlds a planet is, rather than the current border of AI territory. This can make it easier depending on how much territory you've taken (particularly on something like a snake map, but that's something of an edge case), but in light of various recent changes this may not be a bad thing, and the seeding being relative to what you'd conquered was pretty annoying and encouraged some strange playstyles. ** The last shard is an exception: it still doesn't pay attention to what you've conquered, but it always tries to seed on an AI core planet (so bordering a homeworld, but never on a homeworld). Thanks :) |
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Woo! |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Feb 10, 2011 11:29 am | Oralordos | New Issue | |
| Feb 10, 2011 11:39 am | TechSY730 | Note Added: 0010233 | |
| Feb 10, 2011 12:04 pm | Draco18s | Note Added: 0010234 | |
| Feb 10, 2011 12:39 pm | Oralordos | Note Added: 0010236 | |
| Feb 10, 2011 12:42 pm | Draco18s | Note Added: 0010237 | |
| Feb 10, 2011 1:37 pm | KDR_11k | Note Added: 0010238 | |
| Feb 10, 2011 1:50 pm | Draco18s | Note Added: 0010240 | |
| Feb 10, 2011 4:53 pm | KDR_11k | Note Added: 0010244 | |
| Feb 10, 2011 5:52 pm | Oralordos | Description Updated | |
| Feb 10, 2011 6:38 pm | orzelek | Note Added: 0010249 | |
| Feb 10, 2011 8:12 pm | Zeyurn | Note Added: 0010253 | |
| Feb 11, 2011 7:54 am | chemical_art | Note Added: 0010267 | |
| Sep 6, 2011 1:00 pm | Nice Save | Note Added: 0013145 | |
| Sep 6, 2011 1:03 pm | Nice Save | Note Edited: 0013145 | |
| Sep 6, 2011 5:25 pm | Lancefighter | Note Added: 0013151 | |
| Oct 20, 2011 3:45 pm | leb0fh | Note Added: 0016919 | |
| Oct 31, 2011 7:41 am | tigersfan | Internal Weight | => Feature Suggestion |
| Oct 31, 2011 7:41 am | tigersfan | Status | new => considering |
| Dec 8, 2011 10:33 pm | Mercatio | Note Added: 0017712 | |
| Dec 8, 2011 10:34 pm | Mercatio | Note Edited: 0017712 | |
| Dec 8, 2011 10:35 pm | Mercatio | Note Edited: 0017712 | |
| Dec 13, 2011 8:54 pm | Lemon | Note Added: 0017842 | |
| Oct 1, 2012 1:59 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0028549 | |
| Oct 1, 2012 1:59 pm | keith.lamothe | Status | considering => resolved |
| Oct 1, 2012 1:59 pm | keith.lamothe | Fixed in Version | => 5.088 |
| Oct 1, 2012 1:59 pm | keith.lamothe | Resolution | open => fixed |
| Oct 1, 2012 1:59 pm | keith.lamothe | Assigned To | => keith.lamothe |
| Oct 1, 2012 2:01 pm | Draco18s | Note Added: 0028550 |
