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IDProjectCategoryLast Update
0024655AI War 2[All Projects] Balance IssueApr 7, 2021 3:03 pm
ReporterAridesAssigned Tox4000Bughunter 
Severitymajor 
Status resolvedResolutionfixed 
Product VersionBeta 2.768 RAM Reduction 
Fixed in VersionBeta 2.770 Multiplayer Metal 
Summary0024655: 3+ Players game ruined by taking out AIP reductions
DescriptionI'm afraid I must consider this a bug, since this balance choice defeats the heart of the game. AI war is about waging a guerilla warfare, carefully gaining assets and always trying to keep a low profile. Currently with 3+ players, there is no such thing. The galaxy is a uniformly dull place and players are left with but a single option - charge head on until the game is over, one way or the other.

Any interesting mechanics are taken out, forcing the players to play a head on strategy game (or not play 3 players at all).
- Distribution nodes (HaP + science) -> removed completely
- Data centers: Reduced to 2 in the whole galaxy. Nothing to raid really
- Major data centers: Missing. Nothing to capture and hold any more

The major issue I have with all this is that all the ways to strengthen the player (but not the AI) are severely reduced / removed. With no destructibles, the player will quickly run out of HaP and free science and the only action left to do is capture planets. This turns AI war into a regular strategy game where the opponent cheats, which is not fun.

Alternative balance options:
- Weaker AIP reduction bonuses for more players (not less reduction structures)
- Stronger Ai budgets instead of taking out key gameplay elements (budget was already altered to match player count)
- Less science for multiple players
TagsNo tags attached.

Activities

ArnaudB

Apr 6, 2021 9:11 am

reporter   ~0061018

That sounds like a bug. Did you max out capturables? It happened before that MDC and DCs were missing due to not there being enough space left in the galaxy to seed them, after the rest of capturables.

x4000Bughunter

Apr 6, 2021 11:54 am

administrator   ~0061019

I believe this is intentionally done, because I was thinking that essentially the extra firepower buff from so many players was going to be a problem. But I can see where the lack of that causes great problems. This is one of those things where it's really a matter of getting feedback, and this is the first I've heard on it. I do agree that the problem makes sense.

x4000Bughunter

Apr 7, 2021 3:03 pm

administrator   ~0061029

Thanks!

* Changes to seeding in multi-empire games:
** Previously, distribution nodes only would spawn in single-empire games. They now spawn with any number empires.
** Previously, co-processors would only seed if you had 3 or fewer empires. Now they seed with any number of empires.
*** NOTE! These only seed in games with multiple AIs, so they still may not show up in general if you're only facing one AI.
** Previously, 2 data centers were removed for every human empire beyond the first. This is no longer the case. That turned out to be needlessly punitive rather than a proper balance lever.
** Same thing for major data centers; previously it removed 1 for every human empire beyond the first. Now it's the same regardless of the number of players.
** If there's anything we need to do to make multiplayer harder to compensate for this, then we can, but hopefully most people will play against a larger number of AIs, which is inherently harder. But that is an option for the player, versus being railroaded into higher AIP games.
** Note: all of these changes will only affect campaigns that are started new in the new version. Existing maps have whatever they already had.

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
Apr 4, 2021 5:00 pm Arides New Issue
Apr 6, 2021 9:11 am ArnaudB Note Added: 0061018
Apr 6, 2021 11:54 am x4000Bughunter Note Added: 0061019
Apr 7, 2021 3:03 pm x4000Bughunter Assigned To => x4000Bughunter
Apr 7, 2021 3:03 pm x4000Bughunter Status new => resolved
Apr 7, 2021 3:03 pm x4000Bughunter Resolution open => fixed
Apr 7, 2021 3:03 pm x4000Bughunter Fixed in Version => Beta 2.770 Multiplayer Metal
Apr 7, 2021 3:03 pm x4000Bughunter Note Added: 0061029