View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0024243 | AI War 2 | Balance Issue | Dec 17, 2020 11:11 am | Jan 30, 2021 3:06 pm | |
| Reporter | OzoneGrif | Assigned To | Chris_McElligottPark | ||
| Severity | major | ||||
| Status | feedback | Resolution | open | ||
| Product Version | 2.705 Clarity, Refinement, and Performance | ||||
| Summary | 0024243: Raid ship inconsistency, technology improvement suggestion | ||||
| Description | The recent nerf of Raid ships gave me food for thoughts, and we confronted some idea with a friend until we found what could be wrong with the Raid fleet ships. Issue: The technology WEAPON: RAID doesn't make sense. The Raid ships use various types of weapons, from snipers, bombers, raw attack; they are the only type of ships with a technology improving all their role types with a single upgrade. Also, since most Raid ships are light, they only use the LIGHT HULL tech. This makes them very easy to upgrade and over-power with few science points. Suggestion: Remove the WEAPON: RAID technology, spread the Raid ships in all other weapon categories, based on their real role and weapon type. Add a new type of hull: CLOAKED or SUPER LIGHT or RAID HULL, and set the Raid ships in this new hull category. We believe the nerf was an answer to this issue, but the root cause is actually how the science was overly centralized for Raid ships, unlike all other roles in the game. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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Here are my thoughts about weapon types for current raid ships: Raid and Apparition Frigates: Fusion Vicious Raid Frigates: Disruptive Bounty Hunter Frigate: Ambush Raiders and Variants: Technologist Space Planes and Mirages: Concussion I'm thinking an ULTRA-LIGHT hull type could do; separate some LIGHT hull type ships such as gunbots and place them in there too. |
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I'm fine with this, but I'm curious about the thoughts of others. |
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Is the addition of another hull type really necessary after already splitting the ships up? It's already hard to find good moments to level hull type with 3 to choose from, so adding a fourth will make hull types even more inconsistent There's also the raid turrets to split up. It would feel better if Turbo Raiders also went to a different tech than the existing covered FRS types for variety. Otherwise the removal and split up of the "raid" tech group makes sense to me, I already feel like we have too many tech groups. |
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Adding a fourth hull tech that would basically also end up the default location for most swarmers probably isn't the best idea. As currently hull techs are choose one in low AIP and chose two in medium AIP games. The science costs involved for hulls being 17K for buying into both ranks encourages intensive specialization in that hull type. Raid turrets are another can of worms with there being some high damage ones without special effects and then the ones spawning drones. Generalist/Tech split respectively? Regular raiders and daggers probably should just be generalist because all they do is move fast and do damage. Raid Frigates being fusion is fair because of their weapon effects. Ditto with Space Planes and Mirage going concussive. But at that point Concussive probably becomes the new raid tech because it would have durable strike craft and also parley into huge alpha for clearing fortifications at the same time. |
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As a long-time supporter of reducing the number of techs in the game, I support that on those grounds. I don't think an extra hull tech is warranted, splitting up the weapon groups takes care of the problem. I think deeper work will have to be done at some point on techs, but that's no excuse to keep Raid tech around. Concussive's already really good, but so is Generalist and Fusion, so probably not the biggest issue. ZO will shake things up anyways, so I think moving it into concussive and seeing what happens is fine. I don't know how the Raid turrets got coded but with the self-build buff its worth checking that they still build at the expected speeds after being moved into new techs. |
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I'm wary of adding a 4th hull tech. It seems like too impact of a change for a specific balance issue. If there are too many ships in the 'light' group compared to 'medium' and 'heavy', then perhaps a better solution would be to reclassify a few light ships into the medium category. |
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I would think reclassing some of the light ships into medium would be a good idea. |
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I also think this change would make sense and is justified. Adding the fourth hull-type would be ok, but in that case the science cost of the hull-upgrades and the distribution of hull-types across ships would need some rebalancing. |
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Crabby's suggestion about current raid ships weapon types would be good imo |
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This is an interesting set of thoughts, but I think I am more inclined to have more techs (split some) rather than consolidating them. The fewer techs there are, the more expensive they have to be, and the more locked-in we get. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Dec 17, 2020 11:11 am | OzoneGrif | New Issue | |
| Dec 17, 2020 1:59 pm | Crabby | Note Added: 0060037 | |
| Dec 17, 2020 5:30 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Assigned To | => Chris_McElligottPark |
| Dec 17, 2020 5:30 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Status | new => feedback |
| Dec 17, 2020 5:30 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0060051 | |
| Dec 17, 2020 5:44 pm | Metrekec | Note Added: 0060057 | |
| Dec 17, 2020 5:53 pm | CRCGamer | Note Added: 0060060 | |
| Dec 17, 2020 6:09 pm | ParadoxSong | Note Added: 0060061 | |
| Dec 17, 2020 6:20 pm | trabbo | Note Added: 0060063 | |
| Dec 17, 2020 7:27 pm | Crabby | Note Added: 0060067 | |
| Dec 18, 2020 5:09 am | Kahuna | Note Added: 0060070 | |
| Dec 18, 2020 5:14 am | Kahuna | Note Added: 0060071 | |
| Jan 30, 2021 3:06 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0060427 |
