View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0022430 | AI War 2 | Balance Issue | Dec 25, 2019 9:22 am | Dec 27, 2019 2:24 pm | |
| Reporter | ArnaudB | Assigned To | |||
| Severity | minor | ||||
| Status | resolved | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Product Version | 1.025 Hotfix | ||||
| Fixed in Version | 1.025 Hotfix | ||||
| Summary | 0022430: Ghost AI invincible homeworld | ||||
| Description | So that has been a problem in the last version, most certainly due to the cloaking rebalance. I have played a four AI game at 9/7/7/7. Having already defeated the 9 and killed guard posts on the other two, I found myself completely stonewalled by the Ghost AI defenses. First problem is the guard posts that are cloaked. It takes so much time for them to decloak even with 3 support fleet worth of sentry frigates at max sentries tech level plus GCA for frigates that nothing get done. Second problem likely enable the first. There are thousands of Eyebot Mark VII hanging around the AI homeworld and just staying in ambush at the wormholes. They one-frame kill Mark 6 Officers golem, the Botnet and Armored Mark 7 last slightly longer but not that much. There is nothing I can do against this. Even throwing fleets without fleets leaders doesn't make things progress, as the ambush will wipe out sentry frigates in seconds, then counterattacks show up and slowly things down. Others homeworlds haven't proved nearly as problematic so this seems to be a Ghost-AI specific issue. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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You only uploaded the meta data file. Need the other thing (meta isn't required for anything). |
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Oops. Site also keeps refusing the save due to file size (2,6mb). Here is an .rar version. |
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Hm, so far it doesn't seem that bad. I've been able to clear out all the Sentry Frigates near the Wormhole, get that Post plus cut down on some Guards with just Auto Bombs and the Fusion Bombers. Will update over time. Addition 1: Able to get Golems in and surviving. Currently not doing too bad though the starving metal the save has is painful, no reinforcements (though I haven't brought in any of your other stuff). Sentry Frigates are now untouched, spread out across the planet so anything is revealed in time. Addition 2: Hive Golem is the key to you winning this I think. Drones (and zombies from Nanoswarms) don't contribute to counter-attacks, so having the Hive Golem and Nanoswarms working full speed makes this much easier. I ended up doing most of a Homeworld last night before getting a counter attack warning using Outguard. |
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Tada. Had a small counter attack earlier, 50S, but that's it cleared with the second one only 70S (and it doesn't fire). So in short, spam Auto Bombs through the wormhole. The Eyebots and Raptors decloak in 2 and 1 shots respectively. Takes 10 seconds for it to come back, so you can bomb them to bits in time. Once that's clear, find the nearby Sabot Post and Fusion Bomb it. Once that's done, you can bring stuff in, spread the Sentry Frigates around. After that it's kind of just having the Rejuvenator and Backdoor Factories + Hive Golem swarm with drones. Keep just about everything else back, microing Muggers, pulling back ones who lose shields. Eventually you just overrun with drones causing no counter attack. Decoys protect the Yellow Jackets, who get metal back for you to build more Auto Bombs/Nanoswarms. Try it for yourself? See if it works for you. An interesting scenario. |
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Well, I tried over and over but nope. Just going to give up. It's utter bullshit. |
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Is er, the save you gave me the right one? You noted thousands of Eyebots but the save has slightly under 600. |
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I have had multiple going between six hundreds to 2800 eyebots and multipel thousands of some Pike units. I spent multiple hours at that stupid thing, I am not doing it anymore. |
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I honestly have no idea what is going on for you. I tried sending everything in on Pursuit then doing nothing and won just fine...that's really weird. |
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Out of curiosity i tried this save you provided, and are you sure you're loosing? I literally just threw in the mk5 combat sentry frigates with the main force, killed the 700 eyebots easily with the armored golem and just watched as the ships FRD to victory. Even with starving metal, all the ships took over after a bit of time. The hive golem alone probably could have carried me to victory in that particular battle, if i wasn't crippling it every 30 seconds. Decloaking the guard posts took literally 7 seconds. if you're playing on 10x speed, then it should take even less time to decloak. 2 minute autosaves of my progress is provided. I seriously have no idea how you COULDN'T win this. You have 3 mk6 golems. If you have issues with the eye bots, send in strikecraft first then. |
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This is what I get by throwing my forces at the Homeworld. Note the time. The initial defenses aren't enough but quickly hundreds strength worth of units show up and wipe out my entire force. |
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did you let the ai get a CA off? Also did you mod your game? |
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I checked if mods were an issue and no. It doesn't change anything. I have Civilan Industry but it isn't active. I also don't get how Rocket has over 500 strength in his screenshot. I don't have half that strength before throwing stuff at the homeworld. |
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the golems + mk7 frigates alone could be like 300 ish strength, so it's feasable to get 500 strength. try playing on normal speed. game tends to act funky when you set the speed to 10x. |
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This image is what you have in the save though. Try playing it at normal speed instead of 10x. |
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Yeah that... isn't what I have. If I wait till timer align to your screenshot, from loading the save I provided (Hope 8) I get <300 Strength. I'm going to wipe out XML mods and try a file check, but that can't be normal. |
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Progress. Clearing the XML mods and file check restored the strength. At the minimum it GREATLY increased the golems and lone fleet health. Oddly enough in what I had, their health and shield didn't increase. Not sure where the rest of the strength comes from. Sentry frigates also work better. I had a lot less latency than usual (I had hundreds of AI units managing to travel my military planet by that homeworld, despite max leveled tachyton near a wormhole and a lot of sentry frigates.) I did manage to kill the guard posts without getting a counterattack this time, so it's looking better there. |
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What were the mods? I know you have a super unit one but I recall those values are notably higher than default which means it should be easier for you. Also curious - can you attach the Debug log here please? I'm curious if there were silent errors. |
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I depreciated the super unit in waiting for rebalance. I believe the only change ended up being no AIP on claim, but otherwise they had the same stats. The mod also wasn't in the loading order so it shouldn't have been loaded. (WorthwhileLoneFleet thingy). Here is the log. Weirdly the AIs are also more active. Yellow sniper AI has thrown me hundreds strength of units in several places after being pretty passive for a while. Fortress baron decided to do the same. Definitively not normal behavior because they haven't been so uppity in over twenty hours of this thirty hours game. I am enjoying the golem that is bizzardly enough, able to withstand some punishment again. (I think it also didn't get mark upgrade for health and shield). |
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12/25/2019 7:37:32 PM Errors in reading GameEntityTypeDataTable internal name 'RorqualHegira' occured more than once internal name 'Thanatos' occured more than once internal name 'Gyrn' occured more than once internal name 'Orchid' occured more than once internal name 'ArkOne' occured more than once 12/25/2019 7:37:30 PM Errors in reading AIWar2GalaxySettingTable internal name 'AICivilWar' occured more than once internal name 'AllyAI' occured more than once internal name 'ConcentratedFRD' occured more than once internal name 'MethodicalFRD' occured more than once internal name 'DefensiveZombies' occured more than once internal name 'AlliedFactionsGenerateAIP' occured more than once internal name 'ScoutAdjacentOnly' occured more than once internal name 'MaxPlanetsToScoutAtOnce' occured more than once internal name 'WaveWarning' occured more than once internal name 'ThreatWave' occured more than once internal name 'CrossPlanetWave' occured more than once internal name 'DirectWave' occured more than once internal name 'ReconquestWave' occured more than once internal name 'SharkA' occured more than once internal name 'SharkB' occured more than once internal name 'GuardAggroDistance' occured more than once internal name 'RegularFleetsToSeed' occured more than once (more but not needed) So huhm, some silent errors indeed. Unsure what happened exactly...the second part is still happening, though. I noticed a lot of aggression from the AI too. When fighting that Homeworld several planets got wiped but I wasn't paying much attention to that, just to the main subject of the report. How odd. Even weirder is the fact the Sentry Frigates are working now. You didn't get error popups saying any of that? I've had the former. |
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12/25/2019 5:57:50 PM Errors in reading TechUpgradeTable internal name 'Unused' occured more than once internal name 'UpgradeMeFromFleetOnly' occured more than once internal name 'Light' occured more than once internal name 'Medium' occured more than once internal name 'Heavy' occured more than once internal name 'Engineering' occured more than once internal name 'MetalGeneration' occured more than once internal name 'CommandEconomic' occured more than once internal name 'CommandMilitary' occured more than once internal name 'CommandLogistical' occured more than once internal name 'Forcefields' occured more than once internal name 'Citadels' occured more than once internal name 'Minefields' occured more than once internal name 'Sentries' occured more than once internal name 'TractorBeams' occured more than once internal name 'SpireCore' occured more than once internal name 'ArkSpirit' occured more than once internal name 'ArkHeart' occured more than once internal name 'ArkArmor' occured more than once internal name 'ArkFist' occured more than once internal name 'BattlestationShelter' occured more than once internal name 'BattlestationHand' occured more than once internal name 'BattlestationArchitect' occured more than once internal name 'CitadelExecutioner' occured more than once internal name 'CitadelProtector' occured more than once internal name 'CitadelConsumer' occured more than once internal name 'EnergyCollector' occured more than once You modded some Techs? This seems to have been an XML loading issue or something...beyond my knowledge as to the inner workings. Guess it despite not being loaded majorly interfered. Is it all working fine now more or less? |
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It's working a lot better yes. Modding tech was when we didn't have turret tech and I added mine. The only thing it really did now was put hulls cost at 8000 rather than 10k. On another note, apparently the special fleets of the AI all migrate to the remaining living AIs, even during civil war... You know what? I think I am just going to go to sleep and forget this game. 1,54K strength. What am I even suppose to do about that... |
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That's...terribly unfortunate. That'll have to wait until Badger returns, though I'll see what I can find. I'll close this one and make a new report with that detail, as it's a different thing. |
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One note, just coming into this: the way that mods are checked to see if they are active or not is different from what it used to be. It used to be that there was one central file that listed all the mods that you would have active (XMLLoadingOrder.txt). That can still be used to control the loading order of mods, but it no longer turns them on or off. To turn a mod on, just create it in its folder. To turn it off, add a blank ModIsDisabled.txt file inside the root folder of the mod. To re-enable, just rename or remove that file. If the file has something in it, it doesn't matter, but it's a waste; the game just checks for the presence of that. To see what mods are active on a given run of the game, if you look in the log you would see an entry like this: 12/25/2019 7:58:08 PM Expansions: The Spire Rises (NOT INSTALLED) 12/25/2019 7:58:08 PM Check For Extra Modules (0.0080s) 12/25/2019 7:58:08 PM Warning: skipped mod "_Vanilla" in XMLLoadingOrder.txt because we couldn't find any mod with that name 12/25/2019 7:58:08 PM Installed Mods: SKCivilianIndustry (1) DefaultLobby (10000) So basically it knows about the first expansion, but that's not installed -- fine. The XMLLoadingOrder.txt refers to _Vanilla, which is an old thing and harmless. But then it's noting that you had two other mods that were actively enabled because of not having a ModIsDisabled.txt file inside them. If no mods are installed or all are disabled, then you wouldn't see an "Installed Mods:" line at all. |
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Also fixed this: * Fixed a nullref exception that could happen in StartReconquestDefenseSeeding for AIs types that do not use non-dire guardians for some reason. Thanks! |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Dec 25, 2019 9:22 am | ArnaudB | New Issue | |
| Dec 25, 2019 9:22 am | ArnaudB | File Added: Hope 8.savemet | |
| Dec 25, 2019 9:47 am | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Added: 0055139 | |
| Dec 25, 2019 9:57 am | ArnaudB | File Added: Hope 8.rar | |
| Dec 25, 2019 9:57 am | ArnaudB | Note Added: 0055140 | |
| Dec 25, 2019 10:10 am | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Added: 0055141 | |
| Dec 25, 2019 10:17 am | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Edited: 0055141 | |
| Dec 25, 2019 10:21 am | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Edited: 0055141 | |
| Dec 25, 2019 10:42 am | RocketAssistedPuffin | File Added: GhostHomeworld.jpg | |
| Dec 25, 2019 10:42 am | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Added: 0055142 | |
| Dec 25, 2019 10:44 am | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Edited: 0055142 | |
| Dec 25, 2019 1:05 pm | ArnaudB | Note Added: 0055143 | |
| Dec 25, 2019 1:07 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Added: 0055144 | |
| Dec 25, 2019 1:27 pm | ArnaudB | Note Added: 0055145 | |
| Dec 25, 2019 1:32 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Added: 0055146 | |
| Dec 25, 2019 1:39 pm | DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY | Note Added: 0055147 | |
| Dec 25, 2019 1:43 pm | DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY | File Added: Autosave.106729.rar | |
| Dec 25, 2019 1:44 pm | DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY | File Deleted: Autosave.106729.rar | |
| Dec 25, 2019 1:45 pm | DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY | File Added: Autosave.106729.rar | |
| Dec 25, 2019 1:45 pm | DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY | File Added: Autosave.106849.rar | |
| Dec 25, 2019 1:45 pm | DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY | File Added: Autosave.106969.rar | |
| Dec 25, 2019 1:45 pm | DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY | File Added: Autosave.107089.rar | |
| Dec 25, 2019 1:45 pm | DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY | File Added: Autosave.107209.rar | |
| Dec 25, 2019 1:45 pm | DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY | File Added: that wasnt so hard jpg.rar | |
| Dec 25, 2019 1:46 pm | ArnaudB | File Added: 20191225193952_1.jpg | |
| Dec 25, 2019 1:46 pm | ArnaudB | Note Added: 0055148 | |
| Dec 25, 2019 1:48 pm | DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY | Note Added: 0055149 | |
| Dec 25, 2019 1:51 pm | ArnaudB | Note Added: 0055150 | |
| Dec 25, 2019 1:55 pm | DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY | Note Added: 0055151 | |
| Dec 25, 2019 1:56 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | File Added: PreAttack.jpg | |
| Dec 25, 2019 1:56 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Added: 0055152 | |
| Dec 25, 2019 2:04 pm | ArnaudB | File Added: 20191225195938_1.jpg | |
| Dec 25, 2019 2:04 pm | ArnaudB | Note Added: 0055154 | |
| Dec 25, 2019 2:13 pm | ArnaudB | File Added: 20191225200533_1.jpg | |
| Dec 25, 2019 2:13 pm | ArnaudB | Note Added: 0055155 | |
| Dec 25, 2019 2:19 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Added: 0055156 | |
| Dec 25, 2019 2:19 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Edited: 0055156 | |
| Dec 25, 2019 2:26 pm | ArnaudB | File Added: ArcenDebugLog.txt | |
| Dec 25, 2019 2:26 pm | ArnaudB | Note Added: 0055157 | |
| Dec 25, 2019 2:39 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Added: 0055158 | |
| Dec 25, 2019 2:40 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Edited: 0055158 | |
| Dec 25, 2019 2:49 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Added: 0055159 | |
| Dec 25, 2019 3:05 pm | ArnaudB | File Added: 20191225205954_1.jpg | |
| Dec 25, 2019 3:05 pm | ArnaudB | Note Added: 0055160 | |
| Dec 25, 2019 3:29 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Added: 0055161 | |
| Dec 25, 2019 3:30 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Status | new => resolved |
| Dec 25, 2019 3:30 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Resolution | open => fixed |
| Dec 25, 2019 3:30 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Fixed in Version | => 1.025 Hotfix |
| Dec 27, 2019 2:21 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0055180 | |
| Dec 27, 2019 2:24 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0055181 |
