View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0022014 | AI War 2 | Gameplay Issue | Oct 30, 2019 1:57 pm | Oct 31, 2019 3:18 pm | |
| Reporter | Chris_McElligottPark | Assigned To | |||
| Severity | minor | ||||
| Status | feedback | Resolution | open | ||
| Product Version | 1.003 Sortable Objectives | ||||
| Summary | 0022014: We're still able to use cloaked units as pickets. | ||||
| Description | I had not thought of this. Technically on some planets (no guardians), you could even use un-cloaked units. Noted by Vault on discord that he was having trouble setting up minipods as pickets. I then was thinking "wow I didn't think that was a thing now." My thought is that if a player has any number ships on an AI planet for too long (10min? 20min?) with no fighting happening from the players against the planet AI owner, then we should have a new form of wave that comes with tachyon stuff and that really wants to attack that one planet. Basically the AI knows you're there, same as we know there are cloaked things on our planets, and them having some sort of reaction is only natural. I don't want this to impact things like players just actually using stealthed units through a world (no reaction is the appropriate action), or to cause extra waves and whatnot during an actual fight (the AI is already reacting to you in some fashion). This is mostly anti-picket, or anti-tiny-beachhead-that-the-AI-doesn't-notice. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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Vault also notes: the AI would need a planet-wide decloaker in this situation. I'm inclined to agree. New unit for just anti-cloaking purposes that has a sniper-range tachyon system. |
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Vault further notes: "Then the next counter to the AI reacting is setting up a picket and having stealthed units bounce planets every 20 minutes. Especially for border worlds. Order stealth ship to go in and out. You would have to make the timer countdown work like a raid engine." My thoughts: I think there's always going to be a way to force things, but it needs to be well beyond the level of diminishing returns and is not currently. Bat has a good point -- and those people should not feel bad for "playing nonoptimally" by not doing some crazy involved ritual with cloaked units. My thought is that the countdown timer thing would essentially just say "are there player units on my planet?" And not care which specific ones. And I guess have a bit of a buffer in there for gaps. So if you somehow set up an infinite patrol, it would still trigger. |
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Why not give the Warden and Hunter Fleet a unique "Planetary decloaker" ship, and then let it clean things up. |
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Keep in mind that you could accomplish basically the same thing by spending 2 hacking points instead of a ton of random micro. |
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I'd be cool with the warden fleet having that ability -- that sounds rather novel, and would require people to distract the warden in general to do a stealth deep strike. Probably that's something that will need to be a lobby option that people can turn off if they don't like it. And yes, I know that this is something that costs 2 hacking points. But we're trying to essentially overcome some very strong conditioning that comes from other games where the tons of random micro is a must. Even the first AI War required that of players who played at an advanced level, so I don't see the case of Vault as being unique. If it was just him coming from a specific other game that causes this style of thinking, that would be one thing; but the whole first AI War causes this style of thinking, which is why the alarm bells particularly went off for me. |
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An idea I had related to this and Deepstriking: AI Command Stations have a very weak, planetary decloaker. Essentially it knows *something* is there (i.e cloaked transport), and now it's scanning to find where it is. Cloaking won't regenerate if it's being drained, so a cloaked Flagship will eventually need to be in non-AI territory. Bumping into a Guardian (Tractor or Gravity) with Tachyon or another source should probably let those take over. It might already happen - a mobile tractor unit moving near a Tractor Array will actually let the Array take over whatever it is holding automatically. |
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I think if we do both Puffin's solution and my solution that would be good. Both sound worthwhile. |
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I quite agree on both points. That's a really good idea! |
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first impression of command stations getting plantary tachyon coverage is that this would really affect how I use things like raid frigates. I currently use these by killing a guardpost, retreating until they get their cloaking back, then repeat as needed this would undermine this strategy altogether if cloaking was never allowed to regenerate--I would be forced to withdraw (tedious) or otherwise be compelled to kill command stations all over the place--bad incentive suppose it depends if raid frigates were allowed to regenerate cloaking while docked in flagship if that is still possible, my grievance isn't as great. But perhaps there should be a separate structure for this functionality that doesn't have an AIP cost attached |
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I am close to giving the Hunter/Warden bonus income to spend on tachyon emitting units. Stlll some bugs to work out on my end. If that doesn't fix things then we can approach the problem again. |
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I've given the hunter and warden fleet some bonus decloaking units. Lets see if that helps. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Oct 30, 2019 1:57 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | New Issue | |
| Oct 30, 2019 1:59 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0054157 | |
| Oct 30, 2019 2:17 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0054164 | |
| Oct 30, 2019 2:19 pm | BadgerBadger | Note Added: 0054165 | |
| Oct 30, 2019 2:22 pm | BadgerBadger | Note Edited: 0054165 | |
| Oct 30, 2019 2:52 pm | BadgerBadger | Note Added: 0054168 | |
| Oct 30, 2019 4:16 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0054171 | |
| Oct 30, 2019 4:30 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Added: 0054174 | |
| Oct 30, 2019 5:19 pm | BadgerBadger | Note Added: 0054178 | |
| Oct 30, 2019 5:21 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0054180 | |
| Oct 30, 2019 6:00 pm | ZeusAlmighty | Note Added: 0054182 | |
| Oct 31, 2019 12:45 am | BadgerBadger | Note Added: 0054193 | |
| Oct 31, 2019 12:45 am | BadgerBadger | Note Edited: 0054193 | |
| Oct 31, 2019 12:45 am | BadgerBadger | Assigned To | => BadgerBadger |
| Oct 31, 2019 12:45 am | BadgerBadger | Status | new => assigned |
| Oct 31, 2019 3:18 pm | BadgerBadger | Note Added: 0054208 | |
| Oct 31, 2019 3:18 pm | BadgerBadger | Assigned To | BadgerBadger => |
| Oct 31, 2019 3:18 pm | BadgerBadger | Status | assigned => feedback |
