View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0002023 | AI War 1 / Classic | Balance Issue | Dec 12, 2010 5:11 am | Dec 23, 2010 5:03 pm | |
| Reporter | Dyers_Eve | Assigned To | Chris_McElligottPark | ||
| Status | resolved | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Product Version | 4.049 | ||||
| Fixed in Version | 4.055 | ||||
| Summary | 0002023: Starfleet Commander AI is overpowered | ||||
| Description | Tried moderate 7.6 diff 60 planets one home planet Starfleet commander AI and backdoor hacker. 2 hours in and they can easily reinforce 15 starships at a planet before I get there and those starships are mark 2 or mark 3. Took 500 ships + 25 of my starships to break a starfleet commander AI planet with 400 ships and a lot of starships and all I have left is 50 ships and 2 starships. Next planet has 20 enemy starships, 17 of them being siege starship IIs. All this from an AI that I got from random moderate. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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Have you tried focusing on fleet ships instead of star ships? It sounds like you're trying to out-starship the AI. Those siege starships are completely useless against an army of fleet ships. |
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SF Commander started out as a "harder" AI type and at some point got moved down to "moderate." I'm not 100% sure why that happened, but with the starship buffs and whatnot I think it might be appropriate to stick it back in the "harder" list. |
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Overpowered? That's an understatement. I started a game a little while back, against a Starfleet Commander, and got stuck right at the beginning. There was a Mk4 planet next to my Home, and no matter how much I tried to build force to be able to go there, the AI just reinforced with double that in starships. I was like 2-3 hours ('Epic' speed) into the game, and the said planet had something like at least 5 of every starship, and over 10 of some of them. 16 Zenith SS's if I recall correctly. And a ton of Guardians too. No other AI type has managed to build a planet that early that was basically impossible to take. Nuking it would've just made those Starships rush me instantly. There was just no way to deal with that amount of starships, offensively or defensively. I never finished that game, because I couldn't really progress in any direction. I started seeing similar planets everywhere else too, no matter where I went. I'm not sure what version that was played in, but I think somewhere before 4030, so not quite recent, but I can't remember seeing any changes so far that would've made this better since then. :/ |
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This probably largely from the Raid Starship type problem. If guardians had damage equal to their fleet ship counterparts, but just had more shots and health (same armor), this would be far less of an issue since they wouldn't make armor so trivial for humans. Humans can make armor trivial too later in the game when they have a bunch of Flagships and Zeniths around to break armor values, but that still leaves the difficulty gated by the early game which makes the game at some point be "I've won it's just a matter of time now" when you get to armor breaking damage boosting and they drop like flies. |
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It doesn't have anything to do about the type. 15-20 starships on every planet you are going to attack means a ton more losses than usual. Imagine 10+ Zenith Starships or leech starships. You are gonna lose like 3 times more ships than normal. I don't mind the 2-3 extra starships on a wave attack, but 20 mark II or mark III starships on every planet I want to attack is insane. |
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Raid Starships are just the most egregious example due to the extreme armor. It happens with many of them to varying extents. So I call it the "Raid Starship Problem" for the time being. :) |
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Well, the Starfleet Commander is supposed to spam star-ships after all :P However, there is the question whether they are "paying full price" for star-ships in terms of "reinforcement points". They should, as that will keep each planet's strength around the equivalent amount of buildup if it was a normal AI. This is of course assuming that the reinforcement points for star-ships are set high enough to begin with. Incidentally, the latest beta has fixed some of the "AI is too eager to free ships, including star-ships" issues. That should help some to stop those early game unprovoked raid star-ships on your planet. (If you destroy a planet with raid star-ships, you deserve to have them rush your planet) |
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Ok: * The Starfleet Commander AI type has been completely reinvented. Now it gets no extra starships in reinforcements, and its per-planet starship caps are just as normal. On defense, it's just essentially a lightly-defended AI. However, on offense it now gets 4x the normal starshsip with every wave, making it a pretty interesting and dangerous offensive raider-type AI. It was already offensive-oriented, but now it is much more so. ** This makes this AI type signficantly easier, as before it could collect dozens of starships at its planets. |
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Could you keep just a slightly higher chance of getting starships on reinforcements, and maybe just 1 more starship per planet than a normal AI? I don't think that would be too hard. Of course, the number of fleet ships per reinforcements would be slightly lower too. |
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I don't really have time to get into that in-depth, and given that this is supposed to be an aggressive AI, I didn't figure that was really needed, anyhow. |
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No problem. :) |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Dec 12, 2010 5:11 am | Dyers_Eve | New Issue | |
| Dec 12, 2010 10:23 am | KDR_11k | Note Added: 0006058 | |
| Dec 12, 2010 12:52 pm | Vinraith | Note Added: 0006061 | |
| Dec 13, 2010 8:08 am | HitmanN | Note Added: 0006087 | |
| Dec 13, 2010 11:05 am | Suzera | Note Added: 0006094 | |
| Dec 13, 2010 11:09 am | Suzera | Note Edited: 0006094 | |
| Dec 13, 2010 11:09 am | Suzera | Note Edited: 0006094 | |
| Dec 14, 2010 4:22 am | Dyers_Eve | Note Added: 0006150 | |
| Dec 14, 2010 9:11 am | Suzera | Note Added: 0006151 | |
| Dec 14, 2010 9:12 am | Suzera | Note Edited: 0006151 | |
| Dec 15, 2010 5:47 pm | TechSY730 | Note Added: 0006236 | |
| Dec 23, 2010 4:35 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0006914 | |
| Dec 23, 2010 4:35 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Status | new => resolved |
| Dec 23, 2010 4:35 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Fixed in Version | => 4.055 |
| Dec 23, 2010 4:35 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Resolution | open => fixed |
| Dec 23, 2010 4:35 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Assigned To | => Chris_McElligottPark |
| Dec 23, 2010 4:59 pm | TechSY730 | Note Added: 0006921 | |
| Dec 23, 2010 4:59 pm | TechSY730 | Note Edited: 0006921 | |
| Dec 23, 2010 5:01 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0006922 | |
| Dec 23, 2010 5:03 pm | TechSY730 | Note Added: 0006923 | |
| Apr 14, 2014 9:29 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Category | Gameplay - Balance Issue => Balance Issue |
