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IDProjectCategoryLast Update
0019593AI WarBug - GameplaySep 3, 2018 1:18 pm
ReporterMatthewYCRAssigned To 
Severitymajor 
Status newResolutionopen 
Product Version 
Fixed in Version 
Summary0019593: Severe, Difficult to Avoid Exploit
DescriptionAssault Transports do not decrease in attack count after being unloaded, still launching their full volley of (21?) bullets

At first i just thought Assault Transports were just incredible and neccessary units, eventually i realised i was exploiting this by accident, and it's very difficult to avoid.

I'm aware AI war shouldn't be updated too much, being that AI war 2 is in production, but this bug was extremely noticable when i started using fresh assault transports (which only shot 1 bullet), it might cap at 11 bullets, but it's still insane

replicate
Build 1x Assualt transport -> Build 200 ships -> load all ships -> unload all ships -> attack anything for 11+ bullets.

this is for the latest version of AI war.

*UPDATE* In reference to "does it really matter?" i'll provide some examples of what this enables the player to do. If this is deemed as fine. I'm okay with the thread being closed.

First. You can get 10 fully loaded Assault transports right at the start of the game, by building 96 F, 96 MC, 8 Bombers at the start of the game, and then loading them and unloading them into and from each of the 10 Assault transports. Assault transports cost a lot of metal. So with the AI progress ticker, in a normal game, you probably want 1-2 more bases first. but on 10/10, its probably worth waiting.

What can 10 fake fully loaded transports do?
- As a defence force, its a tad underwealming for a gamebreaking exploit, its by far the strongest thing you can have at the start of the game, but by no means, unassailable.
- As a full attack force, its "pretty broken". but probably not game destroying.
- As a guerilla force, that is, attack a system for a set goal/destroy its guardposts. its completely broken. This is what i'll be focusing on below.

Using 10 fake fully loaded assault transports, most systems can be stripped of guard posts right at the start of the game. in most systems, just send them in, shift right click each guard post, and then leave, the assault transports will normally do this relatively unscathed most of the time. In mark 4 locations, players may need to micro the transports, so as to not run directly into the main enemy forces. but this is doable too.

It should be noted at 10 fully loaded Assault transports can destroy a basic force field in a single volley, better force fields may require more volleys, but with a 2 second CD, most defences are destroyed somewhat instantly. Fortresses are a bit of a joke, their 0.05 attack mult vs scouts makes them a non-issue.

By itself, it cant beat a sub-AI system where they place all guardposts and a bunch of shields all with the command centre, expecially a gravity one. and it will struggle against the homeworld and their adjacent mark 5 systems, but its pretty close, and sometimes it may be possible, depending on where the warp points are in the system

It may be possible to beat 10/10 vanilla AI with this exploit, in a skilled player's hands, and i'm painfully aware how strong 10/10 AI is

What's upsetting about this to me is that it makes almost all early game ships a bit redundant. especially the stealthy guerrilla fights with star ships which i enjoyed when first playing this game.
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MatthewYCR

Apr 15, 2018 11:14 pm

reporter  

20180416130330_1.jpg (261,446 bytes)
20180416130330_1.jpg (261,446 bytes)

Wasp660

Aug 9, 2018 5:20 pm

reporter   ~0048227

I can confirm that this bug exists, though in my case it did not persist over a reload of the save file.

Wasp660

Aug 9, 2018 6:58 pm

reporter   ~0048228

It also seems that the Assault Transports may not fire the correct amount of shots: for me they fire 14 shots at full load and in the image above they are firing 12.

Ovalcircle

Aug 31, 2018 12:00 am

reporter   ~0048646

Assaults transports are well known for being cheesy and overpowered. I'm not sure if this is *really* that important.

MatthewYCR

Sep 2, 2018 10:02 pm

reporter   ~0048753

Updated!

Ovalcircle

Sep 3, 2018 1:18 pm

reporter   ~0048777

There have been many discussions over this in the forums:

https://forums.arcengames.com/ai-war-classic/missing-the-point/

https://forums.arcengames.com/ai-war-classic/overpoweredbuggy-assault-transports/msg182079/#msg182079

https://forums.arcengames.com/ai-war-classic/assault-transport-oversight/

Even this one, which is a mod to nerf the assault transports (though thee are a lot of steps and you might break your game if you mess up. And it might not even work): https://forums.arcengames.com/ai-war-classic-mods-modding/(mod)-(dll)-red-queen's-'not-so-assault-transports'/ I put this one here because one of the devs responded and congratulated the modder for making a mod.

Plus: refer to this bug report where someone beat 10/10 https://bugtracker.arcengames.com/view.php?id=8373

Here is the consensus:
1. Yeah, it is kinda op. it does make the game easy. but you can put it in stand-down mode so it acts as just an upgraded transport.
2. Using anything efficiently can make the game easy or easier.
3. Change it up. Challenge yourself by not relying on the crutch of Assault transports. Vanilla AI is just the Vanilla AI. Go up against different AI types and plots.

Here are some of my thoughts:
 What about people using full visibility? That provides a serious advantage.
Notice how you said: It may be possible to beat 10/10 vanilla AI with this exploit, in a ***skilled player's hands***, and i'm painfully aware how strong 10/10 AI is.
Skilled player. To even have a chance at beating 10/10 you need to have advanced knowledge of the game and how it works. You can't play a few games at 7/7 and then go for the 10/10 win with Assault Transports. You'll get crushed. To get to 10/10 you need to work up from 7/7 then 8/8 then 9/9 then 10/10. By then, you should have enough knowledge to at least make some progress and even then you'll probably fail. Don't forget all the different AI types that can be selected.

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
Apr 15, 2018 11:14 pm MatthewYCR New Issue
Apr 15, 2018 11:14 pm MatthewYCR File Added: 20180416130330_1.jpg
Aug 9, 2018 5:20 pm Wasp660 Note Added: 0048227
Aug 9, 2018 6:58 pm Wasp660 Note Added: 0048228
Aug 31, 2018 12:00 am Ovalcircle Note Added: 0048646
Sep 2, 2018 10:02 pm MatthewYCR Description Updated View Revisions
Sep 2, 2018 10:02 pm MatthewYCR Note Added: 0048753
Sep 3, 2018 1:18 pm Ovalcircle Note Added: 0048777