View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0001956 | AI War 1 / Classic | Suggestion - Balance Tweaks | Dec 9, 2010 4:36 pm | Dec 14, 2010 12:37 am | |
| Reporter | mr_lolz | Assigned To | keith.lamothe | ||
| Status | considering | Resolution | open | ||
| Product Version | 4.048 | ||||
| Summary | 0001956: Suggestion: Recreate the characteristics of the 3.0 spacetanks | ||||
| Description | a plea to tweak the spacetank into something more interesting, like it was in 3.0 'the spacetank could realistically be given eg. 4000 armour with the 3.0 value of 18k HP; it would function as nearly 100k HP against opponents unable to penetrate, while eg. anti-armour ships and heavy guns would still kill them, in a few shots- effectively recreating the performance of the much loved spacetanks of old.' | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
| Internal Weight | |||||
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If this makes it near the top of the vote tallies, I'll do it. Otherwise I probably will lack the necessary motivation to walk into that many report of "this unit is impossible to take down because its armor is too high" and "this unit is too easy to kill by x, y, and z because its health is too low" :) |
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I'm not sure you understand how armor works. 4000 is going to be low at mk 3. It's going to be crazy at mk 1. The space tank is a nice fighter+bomber right now. Also, a low-health, high armor ship is going to be blown to bit by guardians. It would be an AI only ship. |
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There is no way that low hp high armor unit can survive now. There are things that have very high armor piercing that would simply insta-kill it. Tanks were not so useful when they had low hp and very high shields.. then it was very random death - now it would be simply - show near X unit and you die. |
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which AI units? the only AI gaurdpost to penetrate would be the missle gaurdpost, which gaurdians? |
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If you really want something to have high enough armor so that it takes 80% less damage from everything because of that armor, just give it 5x health and no armor. It's less of a balance issue waiting to happen thatway. Frigate mk 3 is the biggest noteable ship that would penetrate 4k armor on normal. Tanks are supposed to blow up frigates but that would be SERIOUSLY turned around with mk 3+ frigates if they had that low health. 3/4 of the guardians would break 4k armor EASY and would instapop tanks everywhere. |
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in case I didnt make it clear, there was an assuption in my post that those stats were baseline (MK I) and would increase between MK eg. armour = 3000 + 1000*MK given that the armour values of most ships have been cropped bigtime recently, I would not be suprised if the gaurdian AP was moderated down as well (and im really not sure that many gaurdians DO punch through 4000 armour. those that do are low RoF and effective counters to the tank, what is the problem here). the idea of the tank is that it is efficent against weak units, and wasted against heavy attacks. armour dosnt 'break' in anycase, it subtracts from, to a minimal of 20% damage. even high MK frigates would basically be doing 30% or 40% damage. it would be starships, sentinel frigates, acid sprayers, bombards, polarisers, armour ships and the wealth of other high damage, armour peircing and attacks that would negate armour. |
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It "breaks" the % reduction at some point. When the armor is a small % reduction due to high raw damage per shot, that is essentially "breaking the armor". The AI gets a lot of ships where the reduction would be relatively small on every planet, and thus low health high armor units would die all over the place if humans had them. The human players don't have units that do more raw damage than that at mk 1 (or 2 for that matter), and so they would be very powerful if the AI got them. The guardian raw damage per shot is the issue, not any AP levels. High raw damage per shot is exactly like having AP, but better since it hurts non armored things just as much. |
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Just to clarify the armor issue: 100,000 damage vs. 4000 armor is still 96,000 damage (bye bye tank) whereas the same 100,000 damage vs. 150 armor is 99,850 damage (bye bye fighter) and the AI is the only one who can routinely lob around 100,000 damage shots (and generally with a shot multiplier to boot). |
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yes, an attack capable of instakilling a proposed MK I tank deals over 24k damage to polycrystal. I am not sure how many attacks are capable of doing the above while not being able to of instakill an MK I bomber as well |
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Humans don't get guardians. |
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Do any of the spire ships fill the niche? |
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Not any more. Most of their attacks are, or have been reduced to, 20k per bullet or below. |
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Spirecraft are an expansion ship that everyone may not have. Guardians are in all of them. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Dec 9, 2010 4:36 pm | mr_lolz | New Issue | |
| Dec 9, 2010 4:42 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0005823 | |
| Dec 9, 2010 4:42 pm | keith.lamothe | Assigned To | => keith.lamothe |
| Dec 9, 2010 4:42 pm | keith.lamothe | Status | new => considering |
| Dec 9, 2010 4:43 pm | Suzera | Note Added: 0005824 | |
| Dec 9, 2010 4:46 pm | Suzera | Note Edited: 0005824 | |
| Dec 9, 2010 7:17 pm | orzelek | Note Added: 0005838 | |
| Dec 9, 2010 7:17 pm | orzelek | Note Edited: 0005838 | |
| Dec 10, 2010 4:06 am | mr_lolz | Note Added: 0005857 | |
| Dec 10, 2010 9:46 am | Suzera | Note Added: 0005861 | |
| Dec 10, 2010 9:47 am | Suzera | Note Edited: 0005861 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 3:19 pm | mr_lolz | Note Added: 0005970 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 3:19 pm | mr_lolz | Note Edited: 0005970 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 5:57 pm | Suzera | Note Added: 0005980 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 5:57 pm | Suzera | Note Edited: 0005980 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 5:58 pm | Suzera | Note Edited: 0005980 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 5:58 pm | Suzera | Note Edited: 0005980 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 5:58 pm | Suzera | Note Edited: 0005980 | |
| Dec 13, 2010 4:24 pm | Draco18s | Note Added: 0006124 | |
| Dec 13, 2010 7:21 pm | mr_lolz | Note Added: 0006130 | |
| Dec 13, 2010 8:14 pm | Suzera | Note Added: 0006132 | |
| Dec 13, 2010 9:27 pm | Winter Born | Note Added: 0006141 | |
| Dec 13, 2010 11:07 pm | Draco18s | Note Added: 0006147 | |
| Dec 14, 2010 12:37 am | Suzera | Note Added: 0006148 |
