View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0009283 | Valley 1 | Suggestion - Balancing Issues | Aug 18, 2012 3:40 am | Aug 24, 2012 7:21 pm | |
| Reporter | Misery | Assigned To | Chris_McElligottPark | ||
| Status | resolved | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Product Version | 1.206 | ||||
| Fixed in Version | 1.500 Linux Support! | ||||
| Summary | 0009283: Remove Clockwork Probes from JtP missions + Summoned tornadoes glitchy | ||||
| Description | These things make these missions nearly unbeatable. The problem with them still is their projectile; the player literally cannot dodge this if it's in a narrow area.... particularly in this mission type, where all movement spells are disabled. There's just nothing you can do. They either move into exactly the right spot where you can hit them without being in the path of their shots, or you dont hit them at all. It's tedious and annoying waiting for the idiotic things to move into spots where it's actually possible to hit them, and WHILE you're waiting, inevitably more of them are spawning. Literally the only thing I've found that can do anything about these in narrow passages is to drop a summoned tornado in front of you to block the shots, but the tornados have a really high chance of glitching into a wall/cieling, as well as taking way too long to recharge to be of real use here. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
| Internal Weight | Feature Suggestion | ||||
| related to | 0008617 | resolved | Chris_McElligottPark | Dont allow Urban Sniper Balloons in JtP missions |
| related to | 0008717 | considering | Balancing JtP missions |
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Just to add to this a bit: I'm finding there's no way to deal with these things even in outdoor missions: Their monstrous range means their shots come onto the screen way before they do, and since the shots are so far from them, their sine movement is larger and even nastier to deal with. Since I cant hit them (or see them), the only way I've found to get past these is to use Rising Bubbles to cross way overhead, which seems like cheating, really. But no other spell I try will do anything against these, aside from the tornado one, but again the recharge is way too low and that spell seems to glitch out alot. |
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The tornadoes glitch a lot? That sounds like a bug itself. There is a problem I've noticed with rhino summons, where you can face a wall and summon them - at which point they'll be stuck in the wall for about half their lifespan, then teleport to another place on the map. Is that what's going on with the tornadoes for you, or something else? Could you provide a screenshot of this situation? Without one, I'm having trouble picturing if your situation has some remedies (like just running past them, attacking them with summons, stealth enchants, hit and run tactics), or if this is kind of a "mission-breaking" problem that should be fixed. And even if it is, there remains the question of whether the devs want all missions to be completable, or for there to be some impassable situations. What difficulty is this on? I'm wondering if the Probes' rate of fire is a significant issue here. Re range: Last I checked, their range seems to be a little bit shorter than the player's max longrange-projectile range (which I think still means shooting them from offscreen). Do you think Probes should be tweaked somehow to make them easier to face, or do you think they should be removed? If tweaked - Do you think probes are fine outside of JtP missions, or do you think they should be changed both within and outside of JtP missions? |
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I uploaded a screenshot, though it's really not the best example of this, but it'll do for now. That narrow path on the bottom of the screen there is a good example of the type of area I'm thinking of here; the sort of place where the Probes can constantly fire into, and you cant really dodge their shots to get past them due to the shots' wild movement. And that's considering ONLY the probe.... usually there's more monsters than just one probe; it could be one probe plus some random things as in this screenshot, or it could be multiple probes, which is even worse. Part of the problem with it is that the probes dont need to aim well in order to get their shots in the right place. If that probe on the right of the screen there was a bit higher, kinda near where that water esper above it is, it could fire just vaguely in my direction, and the sine wave movement of the shot plus it's ability to slide along walls would allow the shot into the corridor regardless of bad aim, where it then proceeds to bounce up and down wildly while moving to the left. Their movement can also be a problem sometimes; probes have a tendancy to mostly move horizontally, with little vertical movement. If it's up near that esper there, it'll tend to STAY there, in that general area, not coming down to a spot where I can really hit it. And even if it's pressed up against the wall like the esper is, it often can STILL fire at me and get the shots into that passage. And of course, the longer it takes to beat one of these, the more enemies continue to spawn in this mission type. I'm playing on Master Hero, here. I think the probe's shots dont have as wide/fast of movement on lower difficulties? I'm not really sure. I dont think these things are too bad outside of JtP missions... mostly the trouble is just in this mission type, much like the Sniper Balloons, which have a similar issue. Though these do tend to force shield use to stop their shots when encountered in certain types of indoor rooms. Not sure what the best thing to do here would be. |
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Hmm. Yeah, I think you make a valid case for removing Probes from JtP missions: If you are unable to hit one while it's firing at you, and its fire is obstructing the only path you can go through in order to progress, then it looks like the mission becomes impossible. For that matter, I suppose a valid case has been made for removing Sniper Balloons from JtP missions, too. The only downside to removing either of these monsters from JtP missions is that there's then less monster variety in the missions. That aside, removing Probes and Sniper Balloons is certainly one possible way of making JtP missions easier / less impossible. |
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re the Summoned tornadoes, though - could you either talk about that more here, or (probably a better idea) make a new bug report about just how they are glitchy? It looks like there aren't any other bug reports about glitchy tornadoes, so doing that would probably be helpful. |
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I haven't tried it on Probes but any reasonable Cloak of Shadows enchant is enough to make the sniper balloons reasonable. |
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Mysterial: you might want to read the discussion on the two Related issues (0008617 and 0008717). Cloak of Shadows is great in JtP overall, but some players feel that it's cheap. And in 0008717, I suggested that JtP missions give players an automatic, minor stealth effect (amongst several other JtP ideas). |
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Aye, I dont really use the Cloak ones if it can be avoided. The way they're currently implemented, they're way too powerful. Stealth in general seems like it could use some major tweaking. Heck, the Stealth Assassination mission type currently is pretty much the easiest mission type in the game, since for the most part nothing will ever fire at you unless you pretty much crash into it. Alot of monsters need their base detection range altered, or something. |
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Thanks! * Rising bubbles, lightning rocket, summon tornado, summon dire butterfly, and summon rhino are all now disallowed from the journey to perfection missions. * Clockwork Probes and Urban Sniper Balloons are now banned from journey to perfection missions, as those made those sorts of missions really too hard. * Journey To Perfection Missions no longer allow stealth enchants while you are playing them, as that was exploitative as well. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Aug 18, 2012 3:40 am | Misery | New Issue | |
| Aug 19, 2012 12:22 am | Misery | Note Added: 0027809 | |
| Aug 19, 2012 11:55 pm | Pyrrhic | Note Added: 0027844 | |
| Aug 20, 2012 12:04 am | Pyrrhic | Note Edited: 0027844 | |
| Aug 20, 2012 12:35 am | Pyrrhic | Summary | Remove Clockwork Probes from JtP missions => Remove Clockwork Probes from JtP missions + Summoned tornadoes glitchy |
| Aug 20, 2012 3:22 am | Misery | File Added: Screenshot_2012_08_18_02_41_52.png | |
| Aug 20, 2012 3:33 am | Misery | Note Added: 0027848 | |
| Aug 20, 2012 6:09 am | Pyrrhic | Note Edited: 0027844 | |
| Aug 20, 2012 6:11 am | Pyrrhic | Relationship added | related to 0008617 |
| Aug 20, 2012 6:17 am | Pyrrhic | Note Added: 0027849 | |
| Aug 20, 2012 6:17 am | Pyrrhic | Note Edited: 0027849 | |
| Aug 20, 2012 6:18 am | Pyrrhic | Note Edited: 0027849 | |
| Aug 20, 2012 6:19 am | Pyrrhic | Relationship added | related to 0008717 |
| Aug 20, 2012 9:45 am | tigersfan | Internal Weight | => Feature Suggestion |
| Aug 20, 2012 9:45 am | tigersfan | Status | new => considering |
| Aug 20, 2012 12:15 pm | Pyrrhic | Note Added: 0027859 | |
| Aug 20, 2012 9:31 pm | Mysterial | Note Added: 0027866 | |
| Aug 20, 2012 10:31 pm | Pyrrhic | Note Added: 0027868 | |
| Aug 21, 2012 2:33 am | Misery | Note Added: 0027875 | |
| Aug 24, 2012 7:21 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0027955 | |
| Aug 24, 2012 7:21 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Status | considering => resolved |
| Aug 24, 2012 7:21 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Fixed in Version | => 1.500 Linux Support! |
| Aug 24, 2012 7:21 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Resolution | open => fixed |
| Aug 24, 2012 7:21 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Assigned To | => Chris_McElligottPark |
