View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0000815 | AI War 1 / Classic | Balance Issue | Oct 21, 2010 9:26 pm | Oct 23, 2010 2:25 pm | |
| Reporter | Collic | Assigned To | Chris_McElligottPark | ||
| Status | resolved | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Product Version | 3.900 | ||||
| Summary | 0000815: Very small AI wave sizes | ||||
| Description | Attacking AI waves are very small. At around 100 AI progress wave sizes average at around 20 fleet ships and a starship, sometimes far less (such as 2 snipers and a starship). | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
| Internal Weight | |||||
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What ship cap scale are you playing on? |
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Even on normal, it's an issue. I'll need to look at it. |
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This was on the normal unit cap scale. It still seems out of whack (in my opinion), I know the unit amounts are smaller now, but still! AI difficulty 7 moderate and easier - pretty sure one is an entrenched homeworlder though - lots of captive human settlements about. Can attach a save if needed. |
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Well, I certainly agree they were too small. In for the next 3.901: * The size of waves now scales up by a linear(ish) amount with higher difficulties above 5. The actual math is rather convoluted, though, as the number being affected is a baseline number that then gets washed, inflated, and deflated a number of times afterwards. But, it should create waves that are more appropriately-sized as traditionally was the case in AI War, though scaled for the ship caps of course. Since 3.189 and a bit before, things were far lower than they should have been, making waves all but inconsequential at times. I haven't really had a chance to test the net effect of this yet, so feedback is very welcome, though. |
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This is going to need another look I think. Playing on 3.904 with Diff 8 and an AIP of 53 I got hit by a wave of 161 zenith electric bombers. I'm playing with normal ship caps so I get 98 Mk I fighters, looking at the map generation the player ship cap for Zenith Electrics is 4. AI Wave ship counts are supposed to take into account the ship cap correct? Considering the counter to zenith electrics is regular bombers and regular bombers take 5 shots to kill a zenith electric while the zenith electric one-shots the bomber in return and I only get 98 bombers there's something odd going on here. Attached save ZenithElectrics.sav, it's only 30 seconds before the wave arrives but hopefully you guys can see something in the background. |
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Oh, yes, we clearly forgot something: the accompanying AI Taunt ;) Thanks very much for reporting that, it would be very troublesome if still present in the release. |
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I made it so that the ship cap scale doesn't affect the number of ships downward in waves. I guess I'll have to take that back out. ;) |
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Well, I think the problem here wasn't the ship cap scale not having an impact, but rather the actual ForegroundUnitType.EffectiveShipCap for ZenithElectricBomber not having any impact. Even on high caps the human can only build 8 of them (iirc), but the AI was launching a wave of 161. Not to say that the AI can't have bigger waves than the corresponding ship cap, but it would seem that it was ignoring it even as a "ratio" control. Which is by design, to my understanding, but presumably this particular end-result was not. |
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I think it was because it was so extreme. The relative ship cap for the player is that you get 4% as many zenith electrics as you do the three basic ships. 98 vs. 4 for the ship cap. Applying that ratio straight over to the wave I just saw would have been only 6 or 7 zenith electrics warping in. For sure 161 is too many, but 7 is too few. My AIP was up to 53 on Diff 8 so.... |
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Keith, I'm referring to ShipCapScale. I've already fixed it. Dazio, it would have been 16 instead of 161, with the ship cap scale. I think I'll cap it at a reduction to 30%, though -- so that would have been 48. |
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I know you're referring to ShipCapScale, I'm saying that isn't the primary problem ;) Dazio was playing on normal caps, so the maximum impact from that setting would be to reduce by 50% (from the base numbers used for High), right? Even on low, how could it have reduced by 90% as it would need to for going from 161 to 16? I think I'm missing something :) |
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Sorry, I meant ShipCapMultiplier. It's not affected by the ship cap scale. No worries, all is well. ;) |
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Ah, ok :) |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Oct 21, 2010 9:26 pm | Collic | New Issue | |
| Oct 21, 2010 9:32 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0001892 | |
| Oct 21, 2010 9:32 pm | keith.lamothe | Status | new => feedback |
| Oct 21, 2010 9:32 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0001893 | |
| Oct 21, 2010 9:40 pm | Collic | Note Added: 0001895 | |
| Oct 21, 2010 9:40 pm | Collic | Status | feedback => new |
| Oct 21, 2010 9:41 pm | Collic | Note Edited: 0001895 | |
| Oct 22, 2010 4:30 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0001920 | |
| Oct 22, 2010 4:30 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Assigned To | => Chris_McElligottPark |
| Oct 22, 2010 4:30 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Status | new => feedback |
| Oct 23, 2010 1:06 pm | Dazio | Note Added: 0001976 | |
| Oct 23, 2010 1:06 pm | Dazio | File Added: ZenithElectrics.sav | |
| Oct 23, 2010 1:08 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0001978 | |
| Oct 23, 2010 1:21 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0001983 | |
| Oct 23, 2010 1:21 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Status | feedback => resolved |
| Oct 23, 2010 1:21 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Resolution | open => fixed |
| Oct 23, 2010 1:28 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0001984 | |
| Oct 23, 2010 1:32 pm | Dazio | Note Added: 0001985 | |
| Oct 23, 2010 2:16 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0001989 | |
| Oct 23, 2010 2:19 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0001991 | |
| Oct 23, 2010 2:24 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0001992 | |
| Oct 23, 2010 2:25 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0001993 | |
| Apr 14, 2014 9:29 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Category | Gameplay - Balance Issue => Balance Issue |
