View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0028844 | Heart Of The Machine | Suggestion | Jun 16, 2024 8:10 pm | Oct 8, 2024 10:28 pm | |
| Reporter | Jonathan S. Fox | Assigned To | Chris_McElligottPark | ||
| Status | resolved | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Product Version | 0.547 Energize | ||||
| Fixed in Version | 0.591.5 The New Prologue | ||||
| Summary | 0028844: Give stronger narrative justification to attack the investigators in the prologue | ||||
| Description | For both myself and a friend, attacking the investigators in the prologue felt very bad and murderhobo-y. My friend, who was watching, actually thought I was playing very foolishly by choosing to attack one of the investigators, not realizing I was railroaded into it. This is the tutorial, obviously you shouldn't be able to skip this fight, but I think the narrative justification could be strengthened to create a smoother initial experience for people who aren't looking to kill all the humans. The issue is that if you didn't kill anyone in the underground lab, the story at this point is: 1. There's an investigation into a murder that doesn't have anything to do with you. 2. You're in danger if you don't act casual. 3. There's a lockdown for who knows how long so your freedom of movement is temporarily restricted. We haven't been given any pressing reason to go elsewhere, so the obvious thing to do in this situation is sit tight until the investigation is complete, however long it takes. The last thing I'd pick to do here is to charge straight at the investigators and start murdering them in cold blood. That is literally the worst idea I can imagine. Even walking up and announcing your existence as a self-aware AI feels less suicidal. This necessary gameplay beat could be justified by making the investigation an immediate and credible threat to our continued existence. For example, you could tell me that another android was used in the murder, and they were going to start analyzing recordings of all the androids' past actions and behavior to figure out which one did the killing. Our character can reason that even though we didn't do it, unless we stop the investigation they're going to figure out that we're behaving in a rogue manner and will identify us and intervene to shut us down permanently. Something like that would create an existential motivation to stop the investigation, which is consistent with the motivations of the protagonist before and after this story beat, where surviving is the primary concern. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
| related to | 0028924 | resolved | Chris_McElligottPark | Explain that killing investigators will make them go away before you start killing them |
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The issue I see with this particular proposed solution is that it undermines the blending-in mechanic; if they can figure out which androids are rogue in such a way, then that doesn't really work. I don't have a better alternative, but I think if something is changed in should be in a direction that doesn't conflict in such ways. |
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A divergent approach to this problem is to make the detectives into androids. This removes the 'uneasiness' due to forced random homicide. If the player wants to avoid killing humans directly, then you can still force the combat tutorial without violating that moral constraint. It would probably result in the player losing that conflict and thus being "punished" for not killing and rewarded for treating humans life as unimportant. Or perhaps make the detectives a mix of android and human operatives. Wherein you'd need to kill the humans get the best reward. |
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detectives -> investigators |
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It does tell you when you start it that the blame will be focused on you since androids are able to be used to kill, regardless of the fact of if you did so or not. As stated " Nobody expects a sentient android, but androids have been used in plenty of murders-from-a-distance. You'll be the prime suspect if you do something suspicious." Meaning that if you don't come back to the lab, shut down, and follow their orders, you will be a suspect. At least that is how I view that part. |
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An alternative approach: Have the objective work more like the attempts to steal SecForce officer armour or the water plant infiltration later. You have a thing you can interact with (maybe "hack this surveillance van that the investigators are using to see what they're really up to"), that warns you it might trigger a hostile response. You do it, it triggers a hostile response like it said. Then you get the "don't panic, this branch of SecForce don't have any support from the higher-ups, if you inflict enough casualties they really will just give up". |
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Note, I am planning a thing where basically in the dome they do scans that make the blending-in not work. So you can then actually avoid humans kills if you're okay just running from them for a few turns, since they'll be targeting you first. I will probably use that sort of "mega scan" thing in other domes in the future. |
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It was not clear on my 1st play through of the investigators vs other units on other city tiles/buildings. I was battling SecForce thinking I was attacking the humans. For the very first fight, all other city forces should be invisible so the player clearly knows which forces they are meant to attack. Or -Maybe some kinda hi-lighter on the correct humans tor target would help. |
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Okay, the prologue has been completely revamped, and you can get through it without firing a shot now. You don't have to fight anyone, and there's a spectrum of choices regarding the people who are following you in any one of three different scenarios now: run, fight, or talk. If you choose to run or talk, then you get ambushed by someone else before too long, but you can also avoid shooting at them despite them ambushing you (as they are also distracted with the people who are following you, who are neutral to you if you didn't shoot them first). The people following you are either a syndicate or SecForce, depending on what you chose to do in the intro before the prologue starts. This is not in the demo build yet, but the next playtest branch build has all these changes in it. Cheers! |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Jun 16, 2024 8:10 pm | Jonathan S. Fox | New Issue | |
| Jun 22, 2024 12:18 pm | Strategic Sage | Note Added: 0069387 | |
| Jun 23, 2024 4:01 pm | ptarth | Note Added: 0069412 | |
| Jun 23, 2024 4:03 pm | ptarth | Note Added: 0069413 | |
| Jun 23, 2024 5:33 pm | dragorislordofmercy | Note Added: 0069415 | |
| Jun 23, 2024 11:01 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Assigned To | => Chris_McElligottPark |
| Jun 23, 2024 11:01 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Status | new => confirmed |
| Jun 23, 2024 11:01 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Relationship added | related to 0028924 |
| Jul 1, 2024 7:20 pm | Fluffiest | Note Added: 0069550 | |
| Jul 1, 2024 8:31 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0069554 | |
| Aug 17, 2024 11:07 am | Mikeyd | Note Added: 0069976 | |
| Oct 8, 2024 10:28 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Status | confirmed => resolved |
| Oct 8, 2024 10:28 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Resolution | open => fixed |
| Oct 8, 2024 10:28 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Fixed in Version | => 0.591.5 The New Prologue |
| Oct 8, 2024 10:28 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0070209 |
