View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0002277 | AI War 1 / Classic | Suggestion - Balance Tweaks | Jan 7, 2011 4:56 pm | Jan 7, 2011 11:37 pm | |
| Reporter | Sunshine | Assigned To | keith.lamothe | ||
| Status | resolved | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Product Version | 4.062 | ||||
| Summary | 0002277: Laser Gatlings underpowered | ||||
| Description | Laser Gatlings (compared to basic fighters) have: 4x attack speed 1/8th damage 1/8th health same armor 3x cap -8 speed Roughly same armor piercing (4/5ths) 3/4ths cost 3/4 the bonuses (1.8x against polycrystal, light, refractive, compared to 2.4x for the fighter against CC, medium, poly) Laser Gatlings simply cost way too much for the stats you get. 200 of each resource for a basic fighter, compared to 160 of each resource for a laser gatling that gives you half the DPS (less than half against bonus targets) and 1/8th the survivability. A full cap of gatlings (which costs 12/5ths as much as a full cap of fighters) provides you with 3/8ths of the durability and less than Suggest that Gatlings cost 20 of each resource, and get their hitpoints doubled. They have nowhere near the firepower or survivability of Neinzul ships, nor speed, but they are "indefinite" (which doesn't mean much when you can build Regen chambers that force auto-retreat on nearby Neinzul ships when they're damaged). With these changes made, they will be an inexpensive ship that provides decent DPS only in large groups, and will only ever have a chance of surviving in large groups - even then, they will not survive as long as a normal cap of fighters, but will put out more damage than fighters. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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Taking the numbers above, a cap of laser gatlings has 4 * 0.125 * 3 = 1.5 the base dps of a cap of fighters; multiplying by an additional 0.75 for the difference in bonuses yields 1.125 as much dps against bonus types. This is for 2.4x as much m+c (not sure about energy), so I do think (assuming these numbers) that something of a boost is in order, but I wouldn't say things are way out of line. |
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Well, laser gattlings are among the best examples in the game of the "zergling" style units. Aren't they supposed to be really weak, but really cheap? From the math Keith did, it seems like they are doing decently at that job |
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Sorry, must have forgotten to add in that last set of numbers for DPS - the numbers I have here "that gives you half the DPS (less than half against bonus targets) and 1/8th the survivability." were for individual laser gatlings, and the next bit that I somehow forgot to write in was a cap comparison of DPS. My point was less that the DPS is out of line, but that the HP is out of line, and that Laser Gatlings are in no way going to be able to maintain that DPS because of how they all disappear as soon as someone sneezes near them. This is why I suggested a HP boost, without any damage boost. As a crude measurement, given an arbitrary amount of continuous damage being done to one ship at a time for both fighters and laser gatlings, laser gatlings will do (3/2)*(3/8) = 9/16ths the damage of fighters against non-bonus, and against damage-bonus ships would do (9/16)*(3/4)=27/64, so less than half the damage that fighters would do, for over twice the cost. |
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You're right. Laser gattlings need to die from being kicked in the shins, not merely sneezed upon. Yea, they need a bit of an HP boost. |
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Ah, yes, I now see that the total hp of a cap of gatlings is 1/3rd the total hp of a cap of fighters. I could double the hp. The other possibility is reducing the m+c cost since they don't quite get the "cheap" end of the zergling role. On the other hand the neinzul younglings already have that, so dunno. |
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The doubling of HP sounds reasonable. :) |
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"Suggest that Gatlings cost 20 of each resource, and get their hitpoints doubled. They have nowhere near the firepower or survivability of Neinzul ships, nor speed, but they are "indefinite" (which doesn't mean much when you can build Regen chambers that force auto-retreat on nearby Neinzul ships when they're damaged). With these changes made, they will be an inexpensive ship that provides decent DPS only in large groups, and will only ever have a chance of surviving in large groups - even then, they will not survive as long as a normal cap of fighters, but will put out more damage than fighters." This was my suggestion for how to balance them in their current designated role. (though maybe the cost shouldn't be down to 20 - 50 to 70 is probably a good price point after their HP is doubled). Here are some alternatives to justify their current cost (or near to their current cost): Give them a huge amount of armor - they will die in one shot to anything with armor piercing, but they will last quite a while against anything else. Give them a very short range munitions boosting effect for a very small number of targets (1 or 2 ships, 2x muniboost, 500 range or so) along with the double hitpoints boost. They will have huge DPS, but only in groups (x3 damage against non-bonus compared to fighter, x2.25 against bonus). Give them very fast regeneration, so that they will regen fully in 5 seconds while not "angered" (the opposite of Neinzul, if you will). This would go well with the large armor boost, I think, though how they'll be in AI hands is questionable (lightning turrets FTW, I suppose?). Make them actual swarms, where one ship actually represents a cluster of ships. They get 5x attack or so, 5x damage, the aforementioned hitpoint boost, reduced to fighter cap. |
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* Laser Gatling: ** Base health from 1400*mk => 2800*mk (a cap of Laser Gatlings MkIs used to have roughly 1/3rd as much totaly hp as a cap of Fighter MkIs, now it will be 2/3rds). ** Base MkI Metal/Crystal from 80/80 => 50/50 (so now is half of fighters per-individual, and about 1.4x comparing cap to cap). |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Jan 7, 2011 4:56 pm | Sunshine | New Issue | |
| Jan 7, 2011 5:37 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0007770 | |
| Jan 7, 2011 10:35 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Assigned To | => keith.lamothe |
| Jan 7, 2011 10:35 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Status | new => acknowledged |
| Jan 7, 2011 10:44 pm | TechSY730 | Note Added: 0007873 | |
| Jan 7, 2011 10:54 pm | Sunshine | Note Added: 0007877 | |
| Jan 7, 2011 11:00 pm | TechSY730 | Note Added: 0007878 | |
| Jan 7, 2011 11:03 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0007880 | |
| Jan 7, 2011 11:04 pm | TechSY730 | Note Added: 0007882 | |
| Jan 7, 2011 11:17 pm | Sunshine | Note Added: 0007884 | |
| Jan 7, 2011 11:37 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0007891 | |
| Jan 7, 2011 11:37 pm | keith.lamothe | Status | acknowledged => resolved |
| Jan 7, 2011 11:37 pm | keith.lamothe | Resolution | open => fixed |
