View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0000668 | AI War 1 / Classic | Balance Issue | Oct 17, 2010 1:54 pm | Oct 27, 2010 12:14 pm | |
| Reporter | Dazio | Assigned To | keith.lamothe | ||
| Status | resolved | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Product Version | 3.906 | ||||
| Summary | 0000668: [3.9096] Roaming Enclaves spawn too many ships (Redux) | ||||
| Description | See my new post below for a better report of this. Old report: With the consolation of the turrets into fewer, more powerful structures, a roaming enclaves showing up and spawning 1000 younglings is simply too many, at least in the early game. Yes, the younglings still die pretty easily, but with the fewer, more powerful shots the new turrets put out they are simply getting swamped. I'm not calling for them to being reduced to only spawning a few ships but they do have to come down from 1000. Actually, are the roaming enclaves affected by the ship cap? If they aren't, that might be the fix there instead. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
| Internal Weight | |||||
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I put in code to make them scale with the ship cap scale, but perhaps it didn't work properly. Can you post a save from before the spawn? If not that's ok, but that would make it a lot faster. |
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Attached is my most recent save from the game in question. Not sure how long it is before the preservation wardens in question spawn. Note that I'm playing with normal ship caps (Mk I = 98 ships) but the wardens are still spawning 1000 ships from the pre-unity Mk I =198 ships cap. I don't know if changing the ship cap changes the spawn numbers, I've only played on Normal ship cap since that was implemented. |
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Wow. Maybe I should check these things more, anywhere I put preservation wardens, substitute roaming enclaves. I do have wardens also enabled in this game, but roaming enclaves are actually what I'm talking about in this bug report. |
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Dazio: that's why there's an edit button. ;) |
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In my game one friendly neinzul enclave cleaned up mk II planet of turtle = 5 guardians on wh's. It seemed to be able to spawn two waves of younglings with some time separation (first was at about 25% or so hp from attrition when second jumped out). |
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Dazio, I loaded your save and ran it on turbo, and was slaughtered by hybrids without seeing any roaming enclave spawns. Or were the ones you saw attacking the AI? |
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Okay. I just saw this again and will make a more coherent report this time. See the attached Enclave.sav for my current setup. Fast forward to about 00:49:35 and the enclave will warp into my home system from Revban. I am currently building up my forces to take Revban but that's going to trigger the special forces alarm on Discu so I'm just sitting around in build mode. This means I have my entire ship cap of Mk I's on the Revban warp point to defend so this isn't a case of me getting caught out of position. The enclave mechanic itself is fine, this is the first enclave I've seen and it's at the 49 minute mark but there are two balance issues I see. 1) Number of ships. I'm playing on Normal ship cap (98) and the Enclave spawned 1000 ships, this is what was seen in SlimDX with the high ship cap (198). I haven't looked at the younglings stats but I'm assuming the ships spawned by the enclave are the Normal ship cap ships, not the High ship cap ships with the weaker stats. 2) Mark level. The younglings spawned by the Enclave were all Mk III, I'm still Mk I on all my stuff. I'm 49 minutes in and still bottomed out on both metal and crystal so I haven't started on the more expensive Mk II stuff yet, let alone Mk III stuff. The enclave as it just attacked me would be fine in a late game scenario I think, it would probably knock out a system or two but late game you have the bigger fleet, higher mark levels and more systems to buffer your home system. Where I am in the game at the moment, even if this had come at me from the other side, and so gone through a captured system giving me more time, I still would have gotten flattened. The enclave throws 1000 Mk III younglings in my face, my *entire* fleet at this point is 790 ships, including scouts/turrets/etc. and they are all Mk I. I haven't been doing nothing either, both my metal and crystal are bottomed out so I can't build any more then I already have. I'm not sure what scaling mechanic the enclaves are supposed to use (from the discussions when they were introduced) but it looks like to me the enclaves are going straight to their late-game max power versions, not scaling up as the game progresses. |
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Ok, thanks for the details, I'll look at this tomorrow. It's really not supposed to spawn _that_ many of them ;) |
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Yeah, getting rolled by 1000 Mk3 younglings when you're only 1.5 hours in is a bit nasty. |
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That's nothing compared to how Hybrids were at first ;) |
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Oh my god, Hyrbids. Those things were so nasty. |
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Well, it *is* possible to survive an Enclave attack in 3.906! All it requires is building 5 forts in your home system, forting up with defences massively in all 3 of your systems and for the enclave to attack one of your captured systems instead of your home system directly so you have more time. Even then you lose both captured systems totally and are left with pretty much everything in your home system destroyed except your forts, your home command station and a few random fleet ships. None of the younglings have a bonus against the command station it seems, it survive taking a few hits while my forts cleaned up. |
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I survived more than one already. The key seemed to be having a fleet around - that Mk III younglings I get are slow with killing fighters and bombers which means that having enough of these gives you time to survive until younglings die by themselves (and all turrets plus most of frigates and space tanks end up dead...). |
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Hybrids were absolutely terrible in the Unity beta when they were implemented. One spawning every 23 seconds was a bit too much xD |
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Ok, I found the bug, or at least a bug that would have caused this problem; testing... |
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In for 3.907: * Fixed bug that was preventing various abstracted-factory units (like Neinzul Roaming Enclaves) from scaling properly with the unit cap. * Added a "grace period" where the counters for roaming enclaves and preservation wardens don't start counting up until a certain time has elapsed. Currently it's 20 minutes * (10 - AI Difficulty) for the roaming enclaves, and the same (except 15 instead of 20) for the wardens. So for Diff 7 that's 1 hour, and 45 minutes, respectively. Anyway, I'm thinking this should make it ok; it's still a bit rough if: 1) The first roaming enclave spawns on the low end of its random interval. 2) AND it's an AI-Ally enclave. 500 mkIII units hitting you at 1:45:00 (or thereabouts) isn't friendly, but it's not so bad as 1000 hitting you at 0:45:00. For what it's worth, when I loaded the Enclave.sav case with the ship caps fixed, your defenses successfully repelled those 500 without my intervention. Took a while though. Anyway, when 3.907 is pushed out, please let me know if you have further feedback :) |
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Since this issue has been presumed fixed pending feedback for a while now, I'm optimistically marking this resolved :) |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Oct 17, 2010 1:54 pm | Dazio | New Issue | |
| Oct 17, 2010 9:36 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0001167 | |
| Oct 17, 2010 9:36 pm | keith.lamothe | Assigned To | => keith.lamothe |
| Oct 17, 2010 9:36 pm | keith.lamothe | Status | new => assigned |
| Oct 17, 2010 11:44 pm | Dazio | Note Added: 0001168 | |
| Oct 17, 2010 11:45 pm | Dazio | File Added: a8.sav | |
| Oct 17, 2010 11:45 pm | Dazio | Note Edited: 0001168 | |
| Oct 17, 2010 11:52 pm | Dazio | Note Added: 0001169 | |
| Oct 18, 2010 12:22 am | Draco18s | Summary | [3.717] Preservation Wardens spawn too many ships. => [3.717] Roaming Enclaves spawn too many ships. |
| Oct 18, 2010 12:22 am | Draco18s | Description Updated | |
| Oct 18, 2010 12:22 am | Draco18s | Note Added: 0001171 | |
| Oct 18, 2010 3:31 am | orzelek | Note Added: 0001173 | |
| Oct 20, 2010 4:10 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0001585 | |
| Oct 20, 2010 4:10 pm | keith.lamothe | Status | assigned => feedback |
| Oct 24, 2010 2:02 pm | Dazio | Note Added: 0002042 | |
| Oct 24, 2010 2:02 pm | Dazio | Status | feedback => assigned |
| Oct 24, 2010 2:03 pm | Dazio | File Added: Enclave.sav | |
| Oct 24, 2010 2:04 pm | Dazio | Product Version | 3.717 => 3.906 |
| Oct 24, 2010 2:04 pm | Dazio | Summary | [3.717] Roaming Enclaves spawn too many ships. => [3.9096] Roaming Enclaves spawn too many ships (Redux) |
| Oct 24, 2010 2:04 pm | Dazio | Description Updated | |
| Oct 24, 2010 2:49 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0002046 | |
| Oct 24, 2010 4:02 pm | KDR_11k | Note Added: 0002056 | |
| Oct 24, 2010 4:05 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0002057 | |
| Oct 24, 2010 5:52 pm | Draco18s | Note Added: 0002062 | |
| Oct 24, 2010 8:58 pm | Dazio | Note Added: 0002073 | |
| Oct 24, 2010 9:04 pm | orzelek | Note Added: 0002076 | |
| Oct 25, 2010 10:10 am | Moonshine Fox | Note Added: 0002100 | |
| Oct 25, 2010 10:42 am | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0002102 | |
| Oct 25, 2010 11:10 am | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0002103 | |
| Oct 25, 2010 11:10 am | keith.lamothe | Status | assigned => feedback |
| Oct 27, 2010 12:14 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0002223 | |
| Oct 27, 2010 12:14 pm | keith.lamothe | Status | feedback => resolved |
| Oct 27, 2010 12:14 pm | keith.lamothe | Resolution | open => fixed |
| Apr 14, 2014 9:29 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Category | Gameplay - Balance Issue => Balance Issue |
