View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0003788 | AI War 1 / Classic | Suggestion - Unit Abilities And Behaviors | Aug 31, 2011 7:10 pm | Dec 23, 2011 7:01 pm | |
| Reporter | realcoolguy | Assigned To | |||
| Status | new | Resolution | open | ||
| Product Version | 5.015 | ||||
| Summary | 0003788: Spirecraft shield bearers should live for a number of seconds as opposed to relying on HP | ||||
| Description | 9/6/2011 - Description updated. The idea of a non-repairable shield is interesting, but in practice it can't be balanced for defense and offense by messing with the HP settings. I propose a compromise that would change the mechanic of spirecraft shield bearers and make them unique from other shields (and retain the one time use element). I would propose that the shields themselves are one time use shields that when activated will protect whatever is under them for a predetermined amount of time dependent on mark level. A little play testing would likely be needed but as a first suggestion: (open to other input of course, the devs would probably have a better idea as to what is fair) mark1 - 12 seconds mark2 - 20 seconds mark3 - 30 seconds mark4 - 40 seconds mark5 - 1 minute Trigger - Shields function as they function now, however upon reaching 80% HP the shield starts a timer as it apparently draws infinite energy from an alternate dimension - this process will continue until the timer and the shield expires and can't be aborted. During this process the shield also must remain stationary. Units under the over-amplified shield WILL suffer attenuation in their damage amounts. (This would address the issue of the shield prematurely triggering on sniper units or wormhole guard posts). This would be regardless of how many ships are hammering down on the shield (or how few). This is my best solution to creating an opening for the shields to be used in an offensive and defensive sense in both the early and late game, while also creating a unique opening for attritioner units. This in theory should make the shield feel very useful - while I admit this would lead to certain late game scenarios where players could hold back vast amounts of units, the same is already true of the martyr unit, plus the number of units that could fit under the shield would all suffer damage attenuation when the shield fully engages preventing too much abuse. @Some Random yes - this mean it absorbs any ammount damage for 12 sec even if there were like 20 thousand core ships. (I adjust the lvl 1 shield down to 12 seconds) Just as martyr units over a wormhole can hit any number of units that come through in a wave if you time it right. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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How would you modify it for different ship cap sizes/combat levels? 15 seconds at blitz speeds might be a good advantage but it would lose some luster if you were on a epic/less ships setting. |
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How do they balance in terms of less/more ship settings as it is? You make an excellent point about blitz/epic setting. I'm sure a programmer could come up with an if statement that could handle that setting :D. if gamespeed=slow then shieldtimemultiplier=1.5 They program a lot better than I would know how, but you're right, it would likely have to take into account speed of the game. Then again attrition units are per second, do they have settings that change based on speed? |
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Hmm, IMO, seems a little unnecessary. I've seen some other ideas for shield bearers that require less in terms of "making new mechanics". Yes, messing with HP values alone won't work, but I think there are other ways to fix shield bearers than introducing a new, completely different defensive mechanic. |
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Unnecessary? Probably - but I believe this would add to the one off use style that is somewhat common with the asteroids. The situations I often find myself in is wanting a shield that can just stay up for just a little bit. This would fit that need very well (and I believe it was the intention initially) to have a big shield that will take some of the big hits at least for a little while. The problem is later in the game (sometimes earlier in the game) you just simply have too many ships firing on your force fields. Giving ungodly HP to the shield is unfair in the early game, and even in the late game that number of HP points can be just far too puny to even stay standing 3 lousy seconds. That is why I am proposing the change. I'm not suggesting we change the regular shield bearers, they are already one of my favorite units and don't need any help. This is just for the spirecraft version that just can't fill many roles later in the game, especially when you compare it to the other spire options. This change would seriously make me consider taking a shield or a martyr, as opposed to the current and obvious default choice. Plus I believe it would make the shield feel more even throughout the course of the game. It buys you a little time, but that is it. I'm trying to say is the later in the game it is, the more and more useless these shields become. You may as well drop them off the menu past a certain AP if they are kept the way they are now. |
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Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it isn't a good idea; its a pretty darn nifty idea. However, I still believe there is a way to keep Spirecraft shield bearers balanced without introducing a completely new mechanic. (Also, I never thought you were talking about the regular shield bearers, I knew you were proposing this change for the Spirecraft shield bearers) But then again, this is only one guys opinion. I'll let others vote and see how this idea is accepted overall. Either way, I can adapt. :) |
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Well I'm thinking it may make battles last awhile longer giving attrition units an opening if you make room for some under the shield, fixing the problem of short battles that are always over far too quickly for those units to get any use. It's a 2 unit fix by changing one mechanic. |
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@realcoolguy Don't forget to show your support in the poll thingy below if you like this idea. |
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So would FF bearer become repairable it self, and have ability that cool down ability used maybe to absorb 10,million damage in next 15 sec on planet wide scale. then just remove it from galaxy repair it for 10 million damage, ecter wait 30 minutes rinse repeat? EDIT: I seen how much they cost, if they where to be one time use, ecter i would like to see them to be reduce dramaticly in cost. However ill support idea of sheild should be different and would like them to be something like charged sheild that ether ABSORBS ALL DAMAGE INCLUDING IMMUNITY SHOTS within sheild for out 30 minute cool down 3minutes or maximine damage of 10Million or whatever base health of FFBEAR IS SHEILD is extention of FFB health meaning when it take damage it does as well |
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It would be kind of cool if it worked with a long recharge time instead of one time. It would be a defensive version of the spire penetrator. Ether with a massive health pool to drain or complete absorbing of damage then requiring downtime and repairs. Might have to be a tad it longer then the penetrators half hour recharge though. |
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It would have to trigger on first damage, otherwise you'd never actually get it to battle. Maybe have some kind of counter on it, such that it lasts through that much time *in combat*. So it'll check for damage every second, every second that it takes damage it reduces longevity by 1. So a mark 1 shield bearer that's under fire for 15 seconds would be destroyed, but it would be able to make it between battles so it doesn't get shot once by some lone fighter and then you lose it. |
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Sunshine hit on the point that I was going to update - the fact that there would have to be a proper way to have it trigger. There are a couple of ideas I did have (A few of which would help keep the shield from being overpowering in a game) but I do like Sunshine's suggestion. I hope to revamp my description sometime here soon to address things such as how the shields will trigger, and how they will NOT become some overpowered doomsday weapon that players will automatically select in a similar way to martyr units [Although I'm hoping the change will put the shield on par with the current martyr unit]. |
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Trouble with that sunshine. What if a ship like a sniper pinged your shield from so far away it activates.. And there is no fighting. |
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That isn't so much a balance issue as it is a tactical issue. It is still serving its purpose of protecting the ships under it from harm, just extremely inefficiently. Also, you can always bring along scout starships. If anything is going to be a problem, it's wormhole guard posts. |
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wait are you saying it absorbs any ammount damage for 15 sec meaning eg like 20 thousand core ships? |
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Updated description |
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Yes, it will absorb any amount of damage for 15 seconds, meaning like 20 thousand core ships. It will also trigger any overlapping shields, so you had better hope that you can figure out what to do about 20 thousand core ships in 2 minutes or less. It's worth looking into, I think, because generally in the cases where you'd *want* a one-time use shield generator, they don't maintain shield strength for anywhere near a useful amount of time before the shield shrinks too far. 10/20/30/40/50 would probably be the time constraints I'd go for; it's basically the reverse of dumping an EMP on an enemy planet if you will (but as a limited non-reusable resource with no AIP cost, hence the dramatically shortened duration) in that it gives you a certain duration of time to work without being interfered with. |
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Would this be massive large size FF that covers most planet? or same size? |
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This would be roughly the same size - I think it's already pretty big for a shield. Cost of construction - shield size - length of shield time - there are a lot of variables that can be used to balance out this unit so I'm highly confident that a balance could be found. |
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I really dislike any kind of immunities. This takes it a bit further making it area-of-effect and mobile. The biggest reason I oppose this is that I believe that the humans should never have any kind of immunities. |
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With the addition of even more shields - and the martyr nerf - I believe there is now less compelling reasons to make this change. I would now lean more towards leaving this mechanic the same as it currently is but possibly consider having shields available to spend even with lvl 1 asteroids. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Aug 31, 2011 7:10 pm | realcoolguy | New Issue | |
| Aug 31, 2011 8:05 pm | Drin | Note Added: 0013059 | |
| Aug 31, 2011 8:11 pm | realcoolguy | Note Added: 0013061 | |
| Aug 31, 2011 8:34 pm | realcoolguy | Note Edited: 0013061 | |
| Aug 31, 2011 10:29 pm | TechSY730 | Note Added: 0013063 | |
| Aug 31, 2011 10:42 pm | realcoolguy | Note Added: 0013066 | |
| Aug 31, 2011 10:42 pm | realcoolguy | Note Edited: 0013066 | |
| Aug 31, 2011 10:56 pm | TechSY730 | Note Added: 0013069 | |
| Sep 1, 2011 3:35 pm | realcoolguy | Note Added: 0013080 | |
| Sep 1, 2011 3:40 pm | TechSY730 | Note Added: 0013081 | |
| Sep 1, 2011 7:45 pm | soMe_RandoM | Note Added: 0013082 | |
| Sep 1, 2011 7:58 pm | soMe_RandoM | Note Edited: 0013082 | |
| Sep 2, 2011 6:57 am | Drin | Note Added: 0013092 | |
| Sep 2, 2011 12:00 pm | Sunshine | Note Added: 0013098 | |
| Sep 2, 2011 12:47 pm | realcoolguy | Note Added: 0013103 | |
| Sep 6, 2011 12:28 pm | Drin | Note Added: 0013144 | |
| Sep 6, 2011 8:07 pm | Sunshine | Note Added: 0013153 | |
| Sep 6, 2011 9:29 pm | soMe_RandoM | Note Added: 0013154 | |
| Sep 6, 2011 9:46 pm | realcoolguy | Note Added: 0013155 | |
| Sep 6, 2011 9:46 pm | realcoolguy | Description Updated | |
| Sep 6, 2011 11:11 pm | Sunshine | Note Added: 0013157 | |
| Sep 7, 2011 5:11 am | soMe_RandoM | Note Added: 0013160 | |
| Sep 7, 2011 8:46 pm | realcoolguy | Note Added: 0013170 | |
| Dec 18, 2011 12:49 pm | ArcDM | Note Added: 0017891 | |
| Dec 23, 2011 7:01 pm | realcoolguy | Note Added: 0017940 |
