View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0001225 | AI War 1 / Classic | Gameplay Issue | Nov 9, 2010 9:52 pm | Nov 15, 2010 2:34 pm | |
| Reporter | Lancefighter | Assigned To | Chris_McElligottPark | ||
| Status | resolved | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Product Version | 4.030 | ||||
| Summary | 0001225: Spire *ship* hull type | ||||
| Description | Can we generally agree that we will NEVER use heavy again? EVER? Heavy is currently *THE WORST* hull type for any unit to have. Flagships and light starships late game are completely useless for anything beyond defensive duties due to the crappy hull type. bombers will COMPLETELY melt anything heavy in MOMENTS. (same issue for zelec bombers, for example - they simply do not function in a world where bombers do that much damage to them) | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
| Internal Weight | |||||
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Ok, perhaps starships need to not use heavy. Was that your point? It was so subtly presented ;) |
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minor /rage at heavy hull type in general. Things have far too large bonuses to it. Given the current level of bonuses towards heavy, I dont think ANYTHING should be using heavy... So no - what I want is for units to NOT be as powerful against heavy as they are. |
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Well, specifically, this: All ships with an UltraHeavy hull really need to have around 30 million hitpoints at minimum. The bonuses of the tanks and bombers and such against them kind of assume that. Anything that is Heavy probably needs to be in the lower millions at least in terms of HP, and/or the bonuses of things like bombers against heavy need to be reduced. That's what I think REALLY needs to change, versus the hull types of any of the starships particularly. |
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yes, id largely agree there - bombers have virtually the same bonus vs heavy as ultraheavy, yet units with 'heavy' hull are only in the <5m hp range. are there any high-hp structures that use heavy? perhaps those should just be moved to ultra heavy, and then drop the bomber's (and all other units with heavy bonuses) heavy bonus down to 2-3x |
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Probably that last is what we should do, yeah. This is one of those balance things that was just sort of inevitable from the major changes in the combat model in 4.0, so I'm glad you identified it. It's just one of those transient balance things, it's extremely rare that we want something to get destroyed like butter whenever a single type of counter is around. :) |
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<3 gamer rage successfully diffused. |
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:D |
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Ok, I'll handle the UltraHeavy/Heavy changes, if that's ok, since I think the ship in question that began the rage was one I added quite recently ;) |
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On that note, the Sniper Guardian butchers Lights/Flagships (1 million damage/salvo). A single Mk IV has more anti Light/Flagship DPS than the Mass Driver does. Though at least sniper shots have counters :D It's crazy all this stuff that gets added to the game and then its just another thing you counter with bombers. I just bought CoN and im kinda torn up that hybrid hives are another bomber bait ship. (Though i think theyre neat otherwise :^D) |
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Keith's ref tab is illuminating - it reports no ultra high HP "heavy" hull units see screen shot for toughest (9) heavy vrs bomber |
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Lets see..... With the current heavy bonus reductions, this should place the spire frigate back into usable areas... Hybrids as well are being moved from superheavy to heavy, which means they become *slightly* tougher vs bombers.. basic turrets become the anti-hybrid weapon over laser turrets, but basic turrets do less dps overall comparatively.. I think hybrids will become more of an issue and less of a pushover if your fleet is no longer in town to save the day. Unless your packing heat (hbcs, or other higher tier turrets, or again, your fleet is in town with sieges/bombstars) they are more of an issue now :) as for sniper mk4.. its been a while since i rolled without countersniper escort, however scout starships do this very poorly later on without knowledge investment (they die... or you let them run away, and you take heavy damages initially) Snipers also do mean things to bomber starships :p Overall however, im not worried about sniper damages. they feel more threatening nowadays, which is good |
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This seems to have been resolved, after playtesting I see no more major issues for the moment regarding the heavy hull (except maybe AI zelec bombers, but thats another story) |
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Ok, thanks for the follow-up. Yea, the Spire capital ships are vulnerable to large-ish bomber strikes, particularly higher-mark stuff, but that's a good thing both thematically and balance wise. Still, with proper fighter cover, etc, they should do remarkably well :) |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Nov 9, 2010 9:52 pm | Lancefighter | New Issue | |
| Nov 9, 2010 10:04 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0003136 | |
| Nov 9, 2010 10:11 pm | Lancefighter | Note Added: 0003137 | |
| Nov 9, 2010 10:14 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0003138 | |
| Nov 9, 2010 10:18 pm | Lancefighter | Note Added: 0003139 | |
| Nov 9, 2010 10:20 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0003140 | |
| Nov 9, 2010 10:20 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Assigned To | => Chris_McElligottPark |
| Nov 9, 2010 10:20 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Status | new => confirmed |
| Nov 9, 2010 10:25 pm | Lancefighter | Note Added: 0003141 | |
| Nov 9, 2010 10:31 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0003142 | |
| Nov 9, 2010 11:07 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0003143 | |
| Nov 10, 2010 12:46 am | TheDeadlyShoe | Note Added: 0003151 | |
| Nov 10, 2010 12:47 am | TheDeadlyShoe | Note Edited: 0003151 | |
| Nov 10, 2010 12:50 am | Winter Born | Note Added: 0003152 | |
| Nov 10, 2010 12:50 am | Winter Born | Note Edited: 0003152 | |
| Nov 12, 2010 7:47 pm | Lancefighter | Note Added: 0003320 | |
| Nov 15, 2010 2:30 pm | Lancefighter | Note Added: 0003608 | |
| Nov 15, 2010 2:34 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0003609 | |
| Nov 15, 2010 2:34 pm | keith.lamothe | Status | confirmed => resolved |
| Nov 15, 2010 2:34 pm | keith.lamothe | Resolution | open => fixed |
| Apr 14, 2014 9:28 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Category | Gameplay - General Complaint => Gameplay Issue |
