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IDProjectCategoryLast Update
0025427AI War 2Balance IssueJul 17, 2021 7:41 pm
ReporterCarl Dong Assigned Tox4000Bughunter  
Severityminor 
Status assignedResolutionopen 
Product Version3.313 Input, Selection, And Flagships 
Summary0025427: [Gameplay/Game Design] Please revert or change the Cloaked Units No Longer Display On Sidebar
DescriptionI don't design games, but hopefully what I say will make sense, at least for my play style.

## The Biggest Issue: Stealth GP

One of the things I already find most tedious in the previous games, is to find out Stealth Guard Posts. Not eliminating all of them causes surprise counter waves, give trouble killing eyes, and unexpected amount of reinforcements.

Before the Grav Well update, this was fairly manageable because the Combat Sentry Frigates would cover a good portion of gravity well, and scanning it would not take too long. Unfortunately, this is much more tedious after the Grav Well update, becaues it is common to encounter 70k or even 104k gravity wells. In these case, I must pause, shift-click to order sentry frigates to scan a huge area, without knowing whether the range really cover the entire well. In addition, higher mark GP can survive one or even two scans!

The above situation already makes, in exaggeration, "Revealer Battlestation the only choice", if I don't want to spend twenty minutes hunting for remaining GP, in 3.312. In the 3.313 change, this process is even more tedious. Not only I have to do the same exact thing, but I also don't know whether there are Stealth GP at all! At least, not in Planet View.

I have discussed on Discord about this issue, and I understand that the number of Stealth GP can be calculated by looking at the number of reinforcement points in Galaxy View and subtracting every other structure from planet view. I tried it -- it is extremely annoying. I must switch between two views, remember which structures are "Major", subtract every type, and see if there are any. This process can easily take 10-30 seconds away from game play, calculating something the player should already know by looking at Planet Info.

See -- the number of Stealth GP is not really hidden from player: it is just much more inaccessible. I don't' know much about game design, but this is very likely not what you want.

## Second Issue: It Makes Less Sense

Lore-wise, I think it makes less sense than showing the types in the planet view, because how do you even know the strength if you don't know the type and count of the cloaked units? In previous versions I always thought cloaking as "you know it's here, but you don't know its location well enough to shoot at". This came from an Arcen forum discussion I participated in, even before AIW2 was released. Take one bibliography: http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacewardetect.php#nostealth.

Of course, if this change really is to improve gameplay, then sure. However, I can say that even with unit type/count revealed, cloaked units are already surprising when they reveal at the wrong place. I am skeptical about whether there really need this extra surprise factor.

In addition, there is the same problem about inaccessibility: you would have to subtract visible strength from total strength to deduce whether stealth units are present.

## Third Issue: AIWC Did It Decently

In AIWC, all cloaked units are shown in the "Cloaked Units" white circle in planet info. This sort of resolves the accessibility issue above by at least saying that there is "something" without the player having to calculate.

## Suggestions

About Stealth GPs:
1. Just show them in Planetary Info
2. Change how they work so they are not so tedious to remove
3. If you really think the Stealth change would drastically improve player experience, go all the way and hide them in Galaxy tooltip too

About the stealth change itself, I would really like to know what the developers think this change brings to the player. I honestly think it is all punishment and no fun involved. That bit of extra surprise factor is not well integrated with other part of the game. I mean, do you really want a surprise Poltergeist hitting because it only show up in strength numbers? What do you do to the Ghost AI? How much more tedium required to remove an Eye covered by 10 Stealth GP in a 104k grav well? All these punishment for what gains? It's not like there is an equal change to the AI so they react differently to _your_ stealth units either.
TagsNo tags attached.

Activities

BadgerBadger

Jul 17, 2021 2:23 pm

manager   ~0062492

Chris, for your consideration. I haven't played enough since this change to have an opinion.

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
Jul 17, 2021 11:20 am Carl Dong New Issue
Jul 17, 2021 2:22 pm BadgerBadger Assigned To => x4000Bughunter
Jul 17, 2021 2:22 pm BadgerBadger Status new => assigned
Jul 17, 2021 2:23 pm BadgerBadger Note Added: 0062492