View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0023999 | AI War 2 | Suggestion | Oct 17, 2020 5:31 pm | Dec 14, 2020 4:53 pm | |
| Reporter | Asteroid | Assigned To | Chris_McElligottPark | ||
| Severity | tweak | ||||
| Status | closed | Resolution | no change required | ||
| Product Version | 2.617 Calming For The Nerves | ||||
| Summary | 0023999: Should Military Stations really be blind as a bat? | ||||
| Description | You'd typically want to put military stations on a chokepoint, meaning it's connected to probably two or three enemy planets with only one wormhole leading to your inner planets. The problem is that you can't really afford to lose vision on those adjacent planets to get early warning of a Hunter attack or similar: it's because of that danger that you put the military station there in the first place! I think that between that and their low energy/metal yield, military stations are seldom used. I always see people on the forum suggesting to use Logistical ones, at any rate, and that's what I usually do myself. I'd suggest giving back the ability to see the contents of adjacent planets to all stations. They're differentiated enough by other stuff such as resource yield and turrets, and the nerfs to energy over the last year mean that you won't spam military stations everywhere (it used to be that you could build every single turret everywhere without consequence and have military stations at every border). Basically you won't get more than one or two military stations for the player, watching critical borders. EDIT: Also, I think military stations being blind encourages degenerate gameplay. I find myself sending lone cloaked units on those neighbour planets to get vision. It's fairly easy and safe so why not do it. But that's against the spirit of the whole fleets and no scouts philosophy, and it clashes with the game controls since as soon as I need to move the fleet those units belong to somewhere, they'll all abandon their post if I use the number key to select the fleet or move it through the galactic map. Logistical stations already watch neighbors so no change there. Economic stations rarely border enemy planets except neuteured ones. I don't really see a downside to giving them watch capabilities as well. Unless we're dead-set on surprising the player when a CPA hits and some reinforcements that had accumulated on a neutered planet pop out of the wormhole. But economic stations are so weak that even with a slightly earlier warning they're probably toast anyways. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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I'll point out there is an option in the pre-game lobby that gives all stations between 0-3 hops of "bonus" vision range. And that when used the Logistical will use that value +1. So if you set all planets to have a single hop worth of vision the Logistical grants 2 hops. Option already exists if you want to use it. |
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@CRCGamer Thank you from pointing this out. I'm not sure I want Logistical to see 2 planets away, that feels overpowered and a nerf to the Hunter fleet. So my suggestion is separate from the existence of that option. |
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If that is how you feel about it I'd just suggest you get used to spending a bit of hacking points for permanent vision hacks in key locations then. That is a criminally underused option most of the time. But pays big dividends used smartly. Again the game gives you a ton of tools here. |
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It also not wise to depend on the choke point military base as your eyes as you want at least one logistical ahead of the choke point or hunters will continue to build up until is overruns your military base. You want to see the big threat coming before it reaches your choke point. |
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@CRCGamer Not a bad idea, but I'm always critically short on hacking points. Mostly because I seem to have bad luck with Command Augmenter placement and I prefer paying AIP for the things I don't have the choice to capture to get them, i.e. fleets and Zenith Power Generators. So might as well put one fleet one of useless Eyebots MkI into their own flagship and use them as free scouts. Not pretending my playstyle is optimal or anything. @Smidlee That's a good tip. Though if that's the common pattern people follow, then my suggestion would have even less impact on overall balance, as you already have a Logistical watching part of the planets connected to the Military anyways. TBH though it feels weird and lopsided to me to have to put a Logistical ahead of Military. Might as well give two planets range worth of vision to the latter so that it can fulfill its border guard role properly. If you people are really attached to the current balance, that's fine though. I won't fight to the death for this, there are a lot of more important issues to tackle and multiplayer to finish. |
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FWIW, except for really important planets, I use logistics as my front line and a military behind it, and accept the logistics are more "disposable", and accept I will lose and retake them more often. |
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Play the Fallen Spire and you learn how important forward logistics are ahead of your military choke points. They made better "speed bumps" with gravity generators. This helps spreads the enemy fleet out some instead of hitting the choke points all at once. |
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As-is, I find that I never use anything but Logistical Command Stations. They're the best general-purpose Command Station, and I'd rather not waste science buffing multiple types of Command Station (especially since Economic Command Stations are so expensive to upgrade!), and it's easier to handle my defences if I have Logistical Command Stations acting as highways for my forces. I also value the vision, movement restrictions, and extra forcefields of the Logistical Command Stations quite highly, which make Military Command Stations a hard sell, outside of specific map topologies that really encourage a chokepoint-of-doom ("X" comes to mind). Anything that would encourage me to *not* do this would be welcome; that probably means buffs for the more-specialized Command Stations. |
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I think that this is basically a solid set of options, and pro's/con's to the various types of command stations at the moment. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Oct 17, 2020 5:31 pm | Asteroid | New Issue | |
| Oct 17, 2020 6:18 pm | Asteroid | Description Updated | |
| Oct 17, 2020 6:22 pm | CRCGamer | Note Added: 0059294 | |
| Oct 17, 2020 7:05 pm | Asteroid | Note Added: 0059297 | |
| Oct 17, 2020 8:24 pm | CRCGamer | Note Added: 0059302 | |
| Oct 17, 2020 8:56 pm | Smidlee | Note Added: 0059303 | |
| Oct 17, 2020 9:30 pm | Asteroid | Note Added: 0059304 | |
| Oct 17, 2020 9:32 pm | TechSY730 | Note Added: 0059305 | |
| Oct 17, 2020 9:36 pm | Asteroid | Severity | minor => tweak |
| Oct 17, 2020 9:49 pm | Smidlee | Note Added: 0059306 | |
| Oct 18, 2020 12:13 am | Endovior | Note Added: 0059307 | |
| Dec 14, 2020 4:53 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Assigned To | => Chris_McElligottPark |
| Dec 14, 2020 4:53 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Status | new => closed |
| Dec 14, 2020 4:53 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Resolution | open => no change required |
| Dec 14, 2020 4:53 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0059987 |
