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IDProjectCategoryLast Update
0021611AI War 2[All Projects] Gameplay IdeaOct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Reporterx4000BughunterAssigned To 
Severityminor 
Status newResolutionopen 
Product Version0.887 Ending Scenes 
Fixed in Version 
Summary0021611: Consider: don't let crippled flagships travel to planets further away from human planets than their current one.
DescriptionBasically, prevent the whole "crippled support fleets go to help in a deep strike" thing, and make it so that flagships have to turn around and go home rather than pressing onwards if they can't be repaired in the field for whatever reason.

Most likely people would just be confused by this and it wouldn't prevent the true abuses anyway, I am guessing. But it was an idea that seems maybe related to something that might work, so I'm logging it here.
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Asteroid

Sep 11, 2019 6:47 pm

reporter   ~0053004

Players are already familiar with the concept of units being forced to retreat from very popular games such as the Total War series, so I don't think they'd be confused if the proper symbology and terminology is used. Just put a blinking white flag or the like and use the "retreat" word, and players should understand what's going on.

I think retreating automatically (i.e. the player loses control) and forcing the unit to retrace its steps to go back to the last friendly system it was in would cut down on abuse pretty efficiently. But you could also have the unit move by itself, but accept commands to move to a system if it matches your set of rules for places you're allowed to retreat to.

Of course if the unit makes it halfway through to its target and you allow it to retreat to the closest friendly once it's crippled, it doesn't prevent it from doing the "crippled support fleets go to help in a deep strike" move. Hence the idea of forcing it to backtrack, like most wargame retreat rules do.

kmunoz

Oct 11, 2019 1:08 am

reporter   ~0053592

Flagship invincibility feels very cheesy, and I'd welcome anything that can serve as a kind of "death penalty" so that letting a flagship just get absolutely hammered while it travels to its destination isn't a viable option.

x4000Bughunter

Oct 11, 2019 10:15 am

administrator   ~0053593

One of the things that is a major problem with causing any sort of death penalty is that there's a major desire to be able to have your flagships be at a planet and fight on their own while you look elsewhere. Having to come back and babysit them when their health gets low is kind of a huge pain. We had that problem with golems in the first game.

The goal of players being able to ignore those units and trust that at worst they get fleet-wiped but can rebuild is a big deal to me and I think to the flow of the game in general. But it definitely comes with some unintended side effects like the ones you mention. I'm not sure that a really ideal thing has been thought of yet, but I'm sure there must be solution.

BadgerBadger

Oct 11, 2019 4:04 pm

manager   ~0053600

What about the case where I'm operating a powerful strike force behind enemy lines, and have been neutering planets. One of my flagships is now crippled and I want to send it home using the route I came in so I don't run the risk of annoying any other AI units. Unfortunately, that path requires me to move my crippled flagship further away from my planets.

x4000Bughunter

Oct 11, 2019 4:06 pm

administrator   ~0053601

Yeah, I know; that's one of the reasons I didn't actually implement this specific penalty. I think there should be some sort of penalty, but I can't think of one that doesn't infringe on some legitimate play circumstances in really frustrating ways.

kmunoz

Oct 11, 2019 5:03 pm

reporter   ~0053603

This is probably a bad suggestion but one of the things Stellaris does is when a non-combat unit is forced to retreat, it disappears from the map and takes some time to reappear at the home world. You get an indicator that it’s “lost” in space somewhere, and then it reappears a few game months later.

Maybe something like that? If a flagship is < 10% for X amount of time it gets pulled out and reset somewhere else after a bit (maybe the nearest player planet)?

x4000Bughunter

Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm

administrator   ~0053604

Something along those lines could work, yes; I am a little worried about what sort of balance implications that might have, but we could always trial it as an optional feature that people turn on. Or in general that could be considered kind of a more "hardcore mode" unless people really like it.

Frankly, if we did this then I would keep crippling the same, but make it so that when it hits 0 or 1 health it does this extra thing where it goes into hyperspace to go home.

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
Sep 11, 2019 4:38 pm x4000Bughunter New Issue
Sep 11, 2019 6:47 pm Asteroid Note Added: 0053004
Oct 11, 2019 1:08 am kmunoz Note Added: 0053592
Oct 11, 2019 10:15 am x4000Bughunter Note Added: 0053593
Oct 11, 2019 4:04 pm BadgerBadger Note Added: 0053600
Oct 11, 2019 4:06 pm x4000Bughunter Note Added: 0053601
Oct 11, 2019 5:03 pm kmunoz Note Added: 0053603
Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm x4000Bughunter Note Added: 0053604