View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0001000 | AI War 1 / Classic | Suggestion - Interface Ideas - Visual Indicators, Tooltips, and Summaries | Nov 1, 2010 2:12 pm | Aug 27, 2011 11:52 am | |
| Reporter | Winter Born | Assigned To | Chris_McElligottPark | ||
| Status | considering | Resolution | open | ||
| Product Version | 4.021 | ||||
| Summary | 0001000: 4.022 Please add a way to easily learn hull and weapon types | ||||
| Description | I am looking for documentation on the different hull types. In the "resource" tab if I hover over a ship I can see the hull type for that ship as well as its weapon. It would be nice to have a way to filter/display hull type and now that I think about it weapon type. Would make learning the hulls and weapons easier. I (the engineer in me) would also like to include this data in the AI-wiki | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
| Internal Weight | |||||
|
|
I'm inclined for this, but it's not a priority for soon unless it gets upvoted a lot in the Vote Tallies list. Right now I don't have a real specific idea of of the sort of design you have in mind for this, anyway, which makes it harder for me to really contemplate. |
|
|
The last colum in the ref tab could be programable with a dropdown menu with choices: Hull type or Ammo type Other choices could be added later if desired. Alternativly if a CSV file could be generated listing the unit stats shown in the unit tool tip: Ship/Ammo/Hull/Speed/crystal/metal/energy costs, etc. the CSV file could be printed out by a player at any time with up to date values. This data might help with balance analisis. A copy of the "official release" CSV file could be posted in the wiki and would only need updating every few months. |
|
|
Winter Born, have you tried the export button on the reference tab? I think it may be broken in 4.048, dunno. But it's working again in my own copy so will be in 4.049. |
|
|
The debug->export unit stats should work still. I tried it a few versions back. I need to update mine. It could look better though, and the ship caps are all not there. The description is in the middle and is one of the less useful parts, damage bonuses and immunities don't fit in the sheet's cells and a few other things. If there's something else better than that in the reference tab I'll probably snag that instead. |
|
|
Thanks Keith, 4.048 seems broken -- got 19 unit entries. Suzera, used the "hitting F3, and then hitting Ctrl+Shift+F8" and found several interesting files there including the AIP costs/structure - will massage into a new wiki page after the next official release. ShipDataFull.xls seems to have all the data I was looking for -- will see if I can massage this into a useful wiki page as well. Will play with this data set before posting any additional thoughts TY |
|
|
One note: ShipDataFull.xls is going to be out of date unless you have an updated UnitData.dat file. To update that file requires that you run the Ctrl + Shift + F5 process, which takes about an hour on a 2.4Ghz core, and which updates that file. I typically update those files for official releases or when I'm doing my balance testing, but you'll need to run that yourself if you want something sooner. Otherwise the stuff from ShipDataFull.xls and most of those other similar files (most all of them but the tech points and AI Points ones) are actually dependent on that. The AIP one actually is what I use to update the "what are the sources of AIP in the game" article, by the way: it exports with wiki formatting and everything. :) |
|
|
Winter Born, I forgot to mention that it only exports the units currently listed in the reference table (as the tooltip on the export button says, if I didn't mess that up); so you'll need to remove some filters if you want it to export everything. |
|
|
One way to teach hull types and relative strengths would be a miniature comparison chart when you mouseover the sidebar ship types. hover over your fighters, it lists ships that you have seen the AI have that the fighter gets bonuses against, and ships that the AI has that get bonuses against it. The only thing you'd have to be careful of is flipping the location of ships who have a <1 modifier. |
|
|
Prezombie, you may have already seen this, but from the 5.002 release notes: " * In response to the number-one-on-the-vote-tallies mantis issue: ** Added new PlanetView KeyBind: "Show Strong/Weak Info": *** Defaults to Alt+W. *** When this is active and the mouse cursor is over a ship, each planetary summary sidebar entry will display Win/Lose/Draw (and a % indicating intensity of win or loss, if it's not a draw) as a rough indicator of how effective a cap of the ship type under the cursor would be against a cap of the entry's ship type. Since planetary summary entries frequently include multiple distinct types of ships, this is perhaps most useful in conjunction with the "Guide" mode of the planetary summary that shows all ships of a given mark level (the default key for switching to guide mode is F1). However, even in normal mode this can be useful to at least get a rough feel for which of your ships on the planet are the best you have on hand against a specific target. *** Caveat: this is not using a full simulation or anything like that, it uses the same simplified formula as the reference tab uses. So stuff with modules won't really get accurate results (because it's only counting the base hull), etc. *** Suggestions on text color, default keys, etc, are quite welcome; we're not totally happy with the effect right now but don't have a lot of time to fiddle with alternatives. ** Added new PlanetView KeyBind: "Strong/Weak => One Vs One": *** Defaults to Alt+E (so the full combination would be to hold Alt+W+E). *** When both this and the "Show Strong/Weak Info" keybind are active, the strong/weak info shown will use a one-ship vs. one-ship comparison instead of the normal cap vs. cap comparison. " It's not what you were describing, but it was our next step at the time. |
|
|
I'd rather not have to go into Excel to learn these things. I agree with the OP, and have additional suggestions (and am too lazy to fill them out on their own): * To help ameliorate this, allow the player to alt right click on an enemy ship to load it in Reference (as per someone else's suggestion). * Similarly, allow the player to right click on an alert that a certain type of wave is incoming. As is, if I see a "60x MkII Zenith Beam Frigate" wave is incoming, I have to hit stats, hit reference, and scroll painfully throw a huge list. Please allow me to type to select an object at the very least. * Once I have the reference page pulled up, converting that to actionable information is non-trivial. I have no easy fix to this, but I do have an idea for an an additional column. I assume win/loss percentage is based on DPS vs life span. This might make a fighter look like a big loser, when in fact because of its cost it is a winner. Thus, also have a win/loss that is cost-weighted. * This still doesn't take into account the range difference, but hell, I guess at some point you just have to pew pew and see what happens. :) |
|
|
just a thought might have a color/pattern border to show hull types. people would have to learn what they look like but its quicker than finding one of the ships to see its tooltip to know what to counter it with besides a blob. also would be nice to append the ship icon(for tooltip info) on the wave warnings i.e. polycrystal- blue solid line border ultraheavy- gray castle border(wavy line in case you are wondering you know like crenelations on castle wall) swarm- green dotted line ultra light- blue dotted line light- blue wavy line heavy- gray solid border structure- gray dotted border these are off the top of my head and not necessarily the best color ideas. but if possible matching a ship/ammo type to a color weakness would be good for planning. that way the color would be a good starting point to know what units to use against it. from above that would mean bombers would be good counters to gray and fighters good counter to blue. etc. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Nov 1, 2010 2:12 pm | Winter Born | New Issue | |
| Dec 3, 2010 10:14 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0005093 | |
| Dec 3, 2010 10:14 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Assigned To | => Chris_McElligottPark |
| Dec 3, 2010 10:14 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Status | new => considering |
| Dec 10, 2010 2:14 pm | Winter Born | Note Added: 0005881 | |
| Dec 10, 2010 2:15 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0005882 | |
| Dec 10, 2010 3:14 pm | Suzera | Note Added: 0005903 | |
| Dec 10, 2010 3:15 pm | Suzera | Note Edited: 0005903 | |
| Dec 10, 2010 11:10 pm | Winter Born | Note Added: 0005927 | |
| Dec 10, 2010 11:16 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0005929 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 8:25 am | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0005947 | |
| Apr 15, 2011 7:20 pm | Prezombie | Note Added: 0011934 | |
| Apr 15, 2011 7:33 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0011937 | |
| Aug 27, 2011 1:09 am | mindloss | Note Added: 0013027 | |
| Aug 27, 2011 11:52 am | motai | Note Added: 0013030 | |
| Aug 27, 2011 11:54 am | motai | Note Edited: 0013030 | |
| Aug 27, 2011 11:55 am | motai | Note Edited: 0013030 | |
| Aug 27, 2011 11:56 am | motai | Note Edited: 0013030 |
